354 replies to this topic

[steve morse]

Private Peaceful was on Radio 4 today (or was it yesterday).   I do hope it is not made into a film

[alex falbo]

Steven Broomfield, on 05 February 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

And an aside, back to the discussion on equine deaths at Monchy: I see Anglesey estimates deaths in the 10th Hussars and Essex yeomanry as possibly as high as 900. However, a note I found in the 10H archive yesterday puts their horse deaths at 250.  You pays your money ...

Glad to know you went to see it Steve.

I am an aspiring musician sir... perhaps a rain check?

Was the note you found in the archive written during or after the War?


Side note. Saw the movie diary in Barnes & Noble and had a shufti at production notes and stills from the film. Definately agree that Spielberg was going for the traditional classic British hero look in dashing cavalrymen as he stated himself in the publication. I also looked through the trench sequences and was reminded of how I thought them spectacular on screen too.  Some of the sequences from the end are breath taking. Mind you, the straight trenches can be a spot of bother, but does not by any means ruin the aesthetic or the intensity. The uniforms and equipment in those sequences (Over the Top) were bloody great.

[maxi]

Alex

Agree with your Side Note.

I live near Hatfield and on the old BAe site I saw Spielberg film both 'Band of Brothers' and previously to that 'Saving Private Ryan'.  The man is so amazing in what he brings from the set to the screen. So I was so pleased to hear that SS was to direct War Horse and he did not disappoint.

Maxi

[Steven Broomfield]

alex falbo, on 05 February 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Was the note you found in the archive written during or after the War?

At the time, I'd say. Next time I'm in the archive I'll try and copy it.

[hesmond]

Intrestingly the talk given in the 1980s at the Essex WFA concerning the same action, the talker had details of the request from the Essex Yeomanry to replace mounts killed in the action , i would assume this was from the archive in Chelmsford ?

[Chief_Chum]

"If I'm not mistaken, our ever-dependable Pal, Taff Gillingham, posted recently that he was involved in the production of 'Private Peaceful'. "

Very true SG. We have done our best to alleviate some of the books errors (Brigadiers sitting on Courts Martial, Haig as FM before the Somme, etc, etc) but, in the end, there is only so much that can be done so we concentrated on the things we could do something about.

As usual, the biggest battle was conveying the fact that 1915 Great War battlefields didn't all look like the few wet weeks at 3rd Ypres.

Taking a simplistic book aimed at young children and making it into something as historically accurate as possible, which adults could enjoy too, was always going to be a challenge.

The battle to correct Great War myths has to start in schools. The great shame is that there are so many true stories which would grip young imaginations but no one who really knows their Great War history is writing books for children yet.

The film is still in post production at the moment and I'm not sure of its launch date.

Cheers,

Taff

[GRANVILLE]

keithfazzani, on 01 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

What seems to have been missed, or perhaps not as I haven't read every line of the thread, is that the original book upon which the play was based and subsequently the film was a children's novel.

I don't want to deflect from Taff's posting about Private Peacefull, but I do have to agree with the above and indeed made this point in an earlier post on the subject of the film. Elsewhere in this thread, the cavalry charge scenes were somewhat critisied, but earlier today I read the below lines which as you'll see could almost come from the films script. These are from the memoirs of Lt.-Col Arthur Osburn D.S.O., R.A.M.C.

He was at Mons as a Medical Officer of the 4th Dragoon Guards and gives a vivid account of the dreadfulness of those fateful days from which I lift this particular passage:

………….Either the orders were confused or confusing – or the general’s commands were given direct to the troops and squadrons concerned, always a fatal mistake, instead of being passed as they should have been through the regimental commanders.  At all events the two troops sent out to reconnoitre had been followed by practically the whole brigade. The Germans seeing the comparatively large mass of cavalry suddenly let loose, and galloping towards them, got a bad attack of nerves-why it is hard to understand, for the network of hedges, wire fences, allotments, trolley lines and other obstructions made it unlikely that our cavalry would ever reach either the infantry or guns. But nearly every German gun within range had at once been put onto the small area on which the cavalry were moving.
Presumably to counter this, our field and horse artillery had also been compelled to open fire, thus disclosing prematurely and fatally their own position. They in turn had been hopelessly hammered by the German massed artillery. A first-class ‘battle’ had in fact developed with the rapidity of a whirlwind from this muddled order. For the German infantry, imagining themselves to be really threatened also by this charge of British cavalry, had taken it seriously and checked their advance. Every rifle and machine- gun on their side was now also blazing away at our desperate and rather objectless cavalrymen.
What all our men exactly did – indeed, what any of them did- when they debouched from behind those walls into a perfect hurricane of shells and machine-gun fire, and the clouds of dust and ashes disturbed from the slagheaps no one seems quite to know. Some eventually got to the sugar factory, from which they were soon driven out again by furious machine-gun fire; hundreds crashed amongst the railway lines, horses tripped on the low signal-wires or pitched headlong-breaking their riders necks- into ballast pits near the railway; some even reached the hedge and wooden palings bounding the allotments on the far side of the railway, fairly terrifying the Germans- as a German told me afterwards in Cologne-by their reckless and meaningless onrush; some few actually galloped under this terrific fire through a half-circle of two miles and survived.

Dave Upton

Further to the above, as I've continued reading I've gone on to discover 300 horses were killed in this action - no numbers for the men involved.

[alex falbo]

Steven Broomfield, on 06 February 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

At the time, I'd say. Next time I'm in the archive I'll try and copy it.

Please do. Would appreciate it.

Found a neat site devoting some space to the Warhorse subject. Nice content from WWII back to the 17th century of the Leicestershire Yeomanry.  CLICKY

[trooper4]

I saw the film War Horse a couple of weeks ago thoroughly enjoyed it. Had the pleasure of watching the film in the Kinema in the woods Woodhall spa. Very atmospheric, rising organ at the interval as well !

[seaJane]

The exhibition which was at IWM London on war and children's fiction has now moved to IWM North - I mention this because although two of the books are WWII (Robert Westall's The Machine Gunners and Nina Bawden's Carrie's War) the third is War Horse. But it concentrates not so much on Morpurgo/Spielberg as on war horses as they were. Some good images in the last third of this link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...t-arts-16968920

Two sidetracks: 1. the sound on my 'puter isn't working so I can't comment on the commentary; 2.as a published (yeah, but it was 15 years ago) writer for children I'm appalled that MM didn't see fit to check basic facts about Brigadiers sitting on courts martial, the dates of Haig's career etc. There's no excuse for that - certainly not the "only for children" one. There may have been no www in 1982 (when the book was published) but there was the telephone and the National Army Museum...

[IanA]

trooper4, on 12 February 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

rising organ at the interval as well !

Too much information.  

[Steven Broomfield]

Phnaar, phnaar.

[squirrel]

trooper4, on 12 February 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I saw the film War Horse a couple of weeks ago thoroughly enjoyed it. Had the pleasure of watching the film in the Kinema in the woods Woodhall spa. Very atmospheric, rising organ at the interval as well !

I also saw the film at the Kinema in the Woods with the rising organ.

[kenf48]

BAFTA apparently agreed with the OP of this "epic' thread.

Five nominations - no awards

Ken

[Steven Broomfield]

kenf48, on 13 February 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

BAFTA apparently agreed with the OP of this "epic' thread.

As I think I might have said somewhere, it's not the worst film I've ever seen (a lack of Adam Sandler, Robin Williams, Whoopi Goldberg or Eddie Murphy confirms that). It's not even necessarily one of the worst films I've ever seen (add Kris Kristofferofferofferofferofferson or Barbra Streisand to the above list). But it could and should have been so much better.

I am surprised it didn't get cinematography, though, as it was beautifully shot. (Bit like the German deserters, I suppose).

[squirrel]

Steven Broomfield, on 13 February 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

I am surprised it didn't get cinematography, though, as it was beautifully shot.

Have to agree with you there.

[trooper4]

IanA  It was a musical organ  Or are you on the wrong website?

[IanA]

trooper4, on 13 February 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

IanA  It was a musical organ  Or are you on the wrong website?

This is the Great Phwoar Forum, is it not?

I was a cinema organist for a few years and played a magnificent beast in the Odeon, Great Crosby. I suspect it no longer exists. My organ never rose    but it did change colour.  

[squirrel]

It is a Compton organ at the Kinema and is played regularly at this probably unique cinema which still uses back projection.

[Steven Broomfield]

You'd need a braod back to project a movie on.

I suspect Mr  played a mighty War Horse Litzer.

[IanA]

Mine was a Compton too. It didn't rise and fall so was susceptible to tinkering by kids but it had an 'aeroplane' stop which sounded like a flight of Lancasters and this was left in the on position when the beast was switched off. Any wee tyke turning it on got the fright of his life.

[squirrel]

Haven't heard our chap play that yet but being Woodhall Spa the Dambusters March is played quite regularly.

[Steven Broomfield]

alex falbo, on 05 February 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Was the note you found in the archive written during or after the War?

Had a look today. It's a very interesting document; it was obviously written after the war, but I'd guess not too long. The first few pages are hand-written by "Daddy" (but not to children, I think - this must have been a nick-name), but then becomes typescript. It is headed as a history of the XRH in the Great War, and seems to be notes written by someone who was with the regiment in S Africa at the outbreak of war, through to the end.

Whether it was intended as an outline for a putative regimental history I am unsure: it certainly has that feel, and actually has obviously been seen by another set of eyes as some questions have been posed by this person. As the regimental history ended up being written by Col Whitmore of the Essex Yeomanry, and was a joint work onthe two regiments, I can only assume "Daddy's" work was unused.

However, I will add another comment from "Daddy" that I don't think I have quoted (I hope not - te memory is going), when talking about Monchy:

The streets were blocked by dead and wounded horses, whose blood streamed down the gutters

There's a film there, surely?

[alex falbo]

Steven Broomfield, on 18 February 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Had a look today. It's a very interesting document; it was obviously written after the war, but I'd guess not too long.

There's a film there, surely?

Look forward to further comment. I do believe I've heard something identical to that account. It might have been from Paul Reed's volume or CS.

Certainly brutal content and very dramatic. I suspect tears would be shed at a film like this with ever deeper emotions.

[GRANVILLE]

Over the counter conversation with one of our lady customers who mentioned she'd recently been to see WAR HORSE. Staff: "So what did you think of it?" Lady: "Oh, I didn't like it all." "Really. Why not?" "Oh, there was far too much war in it." Staff: "??!"

Dave Upton