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Muslim graves defaced in France


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#1 Chris_Baker

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

http://www.ladepeche...e-musulman.html

29 war graves and a memorial defaced, with graffiti including swastikas, at Carcassonne. Appalling.

#2 green_acorn

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2011/12/27/1248590-carcassonne-nouvelle-profanation-au-carre-musulman.html

95 war graves and a memorial defaced, with graffiti including swastikas, at Carcassonne. Appalling.


Chris, Reading the article it says 29 graves were descrated. A small point but necessary when these things can get a head of steam of their own in these times.


Cheers,
Hendo

#3 Chris_Baker

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

Apologies and thanks - where on earth did I get 95 from? Original post will be amended.

#4 Keith Roberts

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:00 PM

Regardless of the number, it is sad as well as sick that such activity persists and that anyone takes satisfaction from it.

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#5 Roger H

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:10 PM

Despicable.

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#6 Jim_Grundy

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

Obscene. What else is there to say about such behaviour?

#7 Tom W.

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:06 AM

I searched the forum and found no reference to the desecration of gravestones of Jewish soldiers who died at Verdun, which happened in May of 2004:

http://articles.lati...d/fg-briefs17.3

The creeps doing this also desecrate British and German soldiers' graves.

http://www.google.co...kvmp8N0KD5ZtvKw

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on Muslims being the target this time. The overwhelming majority of grave desecration carried out in France (95 percent) is committed on Christian cemeteries.

http://www.intoleran...cemeteries.html

#8 River97

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:38 AM

You would likely find that this is being done by a person or person's who do not understand the significance of what they are doing. I think they would be mightily scared, to put it nicely, when they find out the true meaning of the war graves and memorials. Still does not make it right though. A good dose of time in uniform would sort them out.

Cheers Andy.

#9 Eceabat

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:46 AM

Mindless stupidity and an insult to all who fell.

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#10 auchonvillerssomme

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:26 AM

I think they know exactly what they are doing and quite possibly they truly believe that this is the only way they can show their feelings about certain sections of a religion they blame for the ills of the world.

#11 Lachlan

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:51 AM

I presume they see it as some sort of anarchy, hitting at the very core of what decent people hold sacred. Plus way too much time on their hands. Or then again, plain old neo-nazi euro-skins.

In a slightly different direction, as the Germans and Allies were fighting it out on the Somme and other areas of Northern France/Belgium in 1940, were WW1 monuments, graves etc damaged / destroyed in battle or else by a revengeful foe ?

#12 hesmond

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:56 AM

In reply as to were war memorials destroyed by the Germans in WW2 ,awnser yes ,and they filmed it ,the memorial for USA Negro troops was blown up ,in fact footage of this was used in the series Why We Fight ? in encourgeing Negro soldiers to join up .

#13 healdav

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:17 PM

I searched the forum and found no reference to the desecration of gravestones of Jewish soldiers who died at Verdun, which happened in May of 2004:

http://articles.lati...d/fg-briefs17.3

The creeps doing this also desecrate British and German soldiers' graves.

http://www.google.co...kvmp8N0KD5ZtvKw

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on Muslims being the target this time. The overwhelming majority of grave desecration carried out in France (95 percent) is committed on Christian cemeteries.

http://www.intoleran...cemeteries.html



One of the two people who did the Verdun desecration turned out to be rather simple (and under the influence of the other). He still got 6 months. The other bloke was retained for a long time for sentencing (not too sure what he got, but it was more than 6 months).

#14 centurion

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

Still does not make it right though. A good dose of time in uniform would sort them out.


Not that hoary old line again! I'd think they would be the last person any decent military organisation would want in their ranks

#15 healdav

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:12 AM

I presume they see it as some sort of anarchy, hitting at the very core of what decent people hold sacred. Plus way too much time on their hands. Or then again, plain old neo-nazi euro-skins.

In a slightly different direction, as the Germans and Allies were fighting it out on the Somme and other areas of Northern France/Belgium in 1940, were WW1 monuments, graves etc damaged / destroyed in battle or else by a revengeful foe ?


We've been here before. During WW2, war cemeteries were treated differenty depending on the attitude of the local commander. I have heard stories of them sending squads to cut the grass, turning out the SS when they went to pull up jewish gravestones, allowing the locals to care for the cemeteries and simply abandoning them. There doesn't seem to have been any policy.

#16 AussiesinArras

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:03 AM

Around 2 years ago, a number of Muslim headstones were damaged up at Notre Dame de Lorette, near Arras.

That section of the Cemetery is now under 24hr camera surveillance.


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#17 Sly

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:12 AM

HI,

We've been here before. During WW2, war cemeteries were treated differenty depending on the attitude of the local commander. I have heard stories of them sending squads to cut the grass, turning out the SS when they went to pull up jewish gravestones, allowing the locals to care for the cemeteries and simply abandoning them. There doesn't seem to have been any policy.


I believe that in most of the WW1 German cemeteries there was not a very obvious distinction between the religion (Jewish or not) during the second world war: most of the German cemeteries had still the original wooden crosses. So the visible religion distinction that we know today wasn't so obvious in 1940s, in most of the case it's Post WW2 (in some case the original wooden crosses were replaced by iron or stone crosses in the late 60's -early 70's, i.e at Vermandovillers)

Sly

#18 CROONAERT

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

most of the German cemeteries had still the original wooden crosses... ... the visible religion distinction that we know today wasn't so obvious in 1940s, in most of the case it's Post WW2 (in some case the original wooden crosses were replaced by iron or stone crosses in the late 60's -early 70's, i.e at Vermandovillers)


Last batch of grave marker changes were as recent as 1977 - 1984 and the earliest took place in 1954 so, as you say, definately post-WW2.

Dave

#19 Sly

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:09 AM

Thanks Dave,

do you know in what German cemetery was the lastest example in France ?
I would have thought La Malmaison or Neuville saint Vaast ?

Sly

#20 CROONAERT

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:52 AM

Malmaison - 1965
Neuville St. Vaast - 1976 (complete overhall from 1975 - work completed 1983)

Halluin, Bousbecque, Monthois, La Broque,Thanville, Bertrimoutier, Annoeullien and Illies were all changed in 1980 (these appear to the last ones... I seem to have been mistaken with my '1984' reference - that was the year that several cemeteries (many of which were cemeteries containing 'floor plaques') underwent a total overhall rather than have a grave marker style replacement)

Dave

#21 Sly

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:02 PM

Thank you very much for all these informations Dave,

Illies German cemetery is one of my favorite. I was told the date of 1977 for the Vermandovillers German cemetery by someone working for the V.D.K in Chaulnes, can you confirm the date?
Maissemy is interesting too.

Regards,

Sly

#22 centurion

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:28 PM

The Waffen SS had a number of specifically Moslem units in the Balkans which might give a reason (but not an excuse) for post war incidents there. However not in France.

#23 CROONAERT

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:34 PM

Sly,

According to my VdK lists, Vermandovillers 'went metal' in 1979.

Dave (PS... add Cernay to the 1980 list - I thought i already listed it, but it seems that I didn't!)

#24 Sly

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:50 PM

Thanks Dave,

:thumbsup:

Sly

#25 Marilyne

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:19 PM

Not that hoary old line again! I'd think they would be the last person any decent military organisation would want in their ranks



I so totally agree with you on that !!
Military service may be a good "education" in some cases, and young men tend to get a bit more discipline and righteoussness in their lives by joining up, but I would never want a guy with so little respect as a trainee.

To all other posts; whatever the reason, whoever did it and on whichever grave, civilian or military, it is APPALING, period !!

Marilyne