10 replies to this topic

[Martin G]

Hello - does anyone know if there are detailed records of Hospital Ships or Transport ships converted for transporting the injured from Gallipoli. I am looking for a list of ships and the dates that they sailed (if they exists). Also does anyone know if (injured) passenger lists were kept and where I might race them?  I am researching a man who died at sea on 14th July 1915 and wondered if it was at all possible to trace the actual vessel he was on.  Regards MG

[old owl]

Martin,

If you pull his service papers at the N/A, then these may tell you aboard which ship he died from wounds and presumably from which ship he was buried at sea.

I would say a fairly good chance

Robert

PS  You're not letting this one go without a struggle!!!

[Martin G]

old owl, on 02 January 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Martin,

If you pull his service papers at the N/A, then these may tell you aboard which ship he died from wounds and presumably from which ship he was buried at sea.

I would say a fairly good chance

Robert

PS  You're not letting this one go without a struggle!!!

Old Owl -  many thanks.By chance on New Year's Eve a friend mentioned her great uncle and the fragments of what they knew about his death at Gallipoli. I promised to research it for them - hence the threads - it is of some related interest as I was once commissioned in the RE as well two life-times ago although was privileged to have served entirely in the Queen's Gurkha Engineers. Regards MG

[KateH]

Hi Martin

I've consulted my lists of hospital ships, black ships and transports that carried wounded from Cape Helles (assuming that if he is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, that's where he was!) during the Gallipoli campaign and the only reference I have for July was the Grantully Castle hospital ship. It spent 10 days acting as a casualty clearing station off Helles but I don't have exact dates for when this happened.

Grantully Castle does have a war diary in the National Archives - War Diaries WO 95/4145

but like almost all hospital ships, does not have the information for 1915 contained in the file.

Other ships transporting the sick and wounded from the beaches at Gallipoli before the landing at Suvla in August, included: Gascon, Sicilia, Hindoo, Guildford Castle, Galeka, Delta.  

At Lemnos, men were transferred to hospitals or sometimes to other ships for voyages to Malta, Alexandria or England so looking at your soldier's file is going to be the easiest method of getting more information.

cheers
Kirsty

[Martin G]

KateH, on 26 January 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Hi Martin

I've consulted my lists of hospital ships, black ships and transports that carried wounded from Cape Helles (assuming that if he is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, that's where he was!) during the Gallipoli campaign and the only reference I have for July was the Grantully Castle hospital ship. It spent 10 days acting as a casualty clearing station off Helles but I don't have exact dates for when this happened.

Grantully Castle does have a war diary in the National Archives - War Diaries WO 95/4145

but like almost all hospital ships, does not have the information for 1915 contained in the file.

Other ships transporting the sick and wounded from the beaches at Gallipoli before the landing at Suvla in August, included: Gascon, Sicilia, Hindoo, Guildford Castle, Galeka, Delta.  

At Lemnos, men were transferred to hospitals or sometimes to other ships for voyages to Malta, Alexandria or England so looking at your soldier's file is going to be the easiest method of getting more information.

cheers
Kirsty

Many thanks Kirsty. I really appreciate your help. I will have to trek down to TNA  to retrieve his service records and hopefully it will give some indication of which ship he died on. With so many ships in the theatre unless I can get a register of sailing dates I think it will be impossible to pinpoint the ship he was on. This is new territory for me, so thank you for your help.

Regards

MG

[alan two]

Hi Martin


I visited Kew yesterday and came across a list of ships in and out of Mudros from Friday 25th June 1915 to Firday 11 February 1916.  I'm not sure whether it is what you are looking for but a random example follows:

December

Saturday 18th

PANAMA Hospital ship arrived today from Malta.

ABERDONIAN arrived today from Helles. Hospital Ship.

GLOUCESTER CASTLE Hospital ship arrived today from Helles.

DEVANHA Hospital ship arrived today from Anzac.

CARRON arrived today from Suvla with 7th Gloucester Regt 12 Officers 339 Other Ranks, 9th North Staffs 3 Officers 150 Other Ranks, R.E. 2 Officers 82 Other Ranks, R.A.M.C. 2 Officers 23 Other Ranks, R.F.A., 1 Officer 12 Other Ranks, 1st Garr. Batt. Notts & Derby 16 Other Ranks. Various Details Sick and Wounded.

PRINCESS ENA arrived today from Suvla with Details 29th Divisional 12 Officers, 98 Other Ranks, 9th Lancs Fusiliers 20 Officers 400 Other Ranks, 7th Gloucester Regt, 12 & 339. 9th North Staffs Details.

H.M.S.MARS arrived today from Anzac with 7th I.M.A.Bde,4 Officers 75 Other Ranks, N.Z.Field Ambulance 6 Officers 91 Other Ranks, N.Z.Mounted Ambulance 5 Officers 51 Other Ranks, 3rd Light Horse Field Ambulance 5 Officers 17 Other Ranks, N.Z.Engineers 3 Officers 63 Other Ranks, N.Z & A Divisional Train, 13th Light Horse, 17th Batt.A.I.F.10 Officers, 339 Other Ranks, 417 Other Ranks, 29th Bat.A.I.F. 3 Officers 260 Other Ranks.

No passenger lists I'm afraid (other than HMHS Assaye that I'm aware of) but if you have uncovered the casualties unit I might be able to locate a ship.  Hope that helps.

Regards

Alan

[Martin G]

Alan.
This is very interesting.thank you for the response.  I have a general interest so I would be extremely grateful if you are able to provide the TNA reference for these files as I hope to be at Kew on Saturday. It will be useful for tracing reinforcement drafts and resolving them against the War Diaries. As you know the Bn, Bde and Div War Diaries sometimes conflict on reinforcement draft numbers and arrival dates. My particular interest is for the period of the month of August for the Sulva based units, but I also have a specific interest in tracing a reinforcement draft of the 4th Bn Worcestershire Regt at Helles who allegedly arrived in the last days of July or very early August as they only appear on one of 3 levels of War Diary.

Separately I was researching an RE Officer- Lt George Maclachlan Allan RE- from 54th Divisional Engineers who died at sea of wounds received at Helles. He died on 14th July 1915, and I was trying to narrow down the possibilities. I don't know if he was on a hospital ship or a black ship and no idea where the ship was heading - Alexandria, Malta or England. If only a few ships had departed days before and there were records of the departure dates it might help narrow the possibilities.

A real long shot.

Regards MG

[JoMH]

Hello Alan,

I would also be very interested to know the reference number(s) at Kew for the files you mention for ships in and out of Mudros. Could you post the reference here? Or PM me?

Thank you.

Joanna

[alan two]

Hi Joanna and Martin

TNA reference: WO 95/4359 Lines of Communication, Embarkation Officer (Mudros).  As far as I'm aware it isn't available on line.  I have photographed the file, about 50 sheets, if that can be of any help.

Martin, there are seveal references to 9th Worcesters on 11th, 13th, 14th July 1915.  There are quite a few mentions of reinforcements to 29th Division without the specifics of which Regiment it refers to.  The first mention I can find for 4th Worcestershire Regiment is Saturday 18th September 1915 as attached below (I have had to crop the page due the 100KB limit).  The only other specific entry for 4th Worcester is on 5th January 1916: 'CALEDONIA sailed for Alexandria today with ......4th Worcesters, and Various Details, of Artillery.'

There are no hospital ships mentioned after14th July until 8th August when DEVANHA and DONGOLA arrived (no mention of where from).  I believe it took around [11 hours]* to get to Mudros from Suvla.  Prior to 14th July; on 7th July ASTURIAS arrived and on 6th August GLOUCESTER CASTLE arrived both from Malta which suggests that they were heading for the peninsula.

Regards
Alan


*[Edit]

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[JoMH]

Alan,

Thank you for posting the reference. I'll put that on my list of things to look up next time I visit TNA.

Joanna

[Martin G]

alan two, on 02 February 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hi Joanna and Martin

TNA reference: WO 95/4359 Lines of Communication, Embarkation Officer (Mudros).  As far as I'm aware it isn't available on line.  I have photographed the file, about 50 sheets, if that can be of any help.

Martin, there are seveal references to 9th Worcesters on 11th, 13th, 14th July 1915.  There are quite a few mentions of reinforcements to 29th Division without the specifics of which Regiment it refers to.  The first mention I can find for 4th Worcestershire Regiment is Saturday 18th September 1915 as attached below (I have had to crop the page due the 100KB limit).  The only other specific entry for 4th Worcester is on 5th January 1916: 'CALEDONIA sailed for Alexandria today with ......4th Worcesters, and Various Details, of Artillery.'

There are no hospital ships mentioned after14th July until 8th August when DEVANHA and DONGOLA arrived (no mention of where from).  I believe it took around two to three days to get to Mudros from Suvla.  Prior to 14th July; on 7th July ASTURIAS arrived and on 6th August GLOUCESTER CASTLE arrived both from Malta which suggests that they were heading for the peninsula.

Regards
Alan

Alan, many thanks for the references. I was at TNA yesterday (thankfully empty due to the weather) and got copies of these. An interesting file. Every box there is like an Alladin's cave.  Regards MG