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Was this Major a VC winner or not


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#1 Fedelmar

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:34 AM

This man has VC after his name ... can you enlighten me as to his country, unit and the details of the VC please.

He is buried in Australia.

Its a bit of a mystery :)

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#2 Stephen Nulty

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:44 AM

Doesn't appear to be a VC winner.

The following annoucement of his daughter's wedding didn't specify a VC and it's probably fair to assume it would have done if he was a holder.

"MARRIAGES

WELBELOVE-MACGOWAN.—On the 21st April, at St. Mary's, Semaphore, by Rev. Father Hanrahan, William Hubert, youngest son of T. R. Welbelove, Kingston, Surrey, England, to Clare Lucy M., only daughter of Mrs. and the late Captain C. J. S. Macgowan, late Bengal staff. Present address - Adelaide street, Largs Bay.


The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA), Mon 23 Sep 1941
"

#3 Fedelmar

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:46 AM

Thanks Stephen ... interesting that it was 'tagged' on his headstone though ...

will pass the info on ...

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#4 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:49 AM

I noticed that the article says 'late capt' yet the headstone says 'Major'

Gets more mysterious :)

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#5 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:14 AM

Have an answer :)

"He was awarded the Cross of Valour which was later replaced by the Victoria Cross, that was a shortened abbreviation that was done at that time"

#6 brucehubbard

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:17 AM

Have an answer :)

"He was awarded the Cross of Valour which was later replaced by the Victoria Cross, that was a shortened abbreviation that was done at that time"


The Cross of Valour is an Australian decoration, but only came into existance in 1975.....

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#7 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:19 AM

Like to see you boys on the ball ...:D

#8 Blackblue

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:33 PM

http://members.westn...ary/Default.htm

http://archiver.root...0-01/0946772864

http://archiver.root...4-06/1086944648

http://wisdom154.tri...brown/id21.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...allery_05.shtml

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#9 centurion

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

Doesn't appear on the definitive list of pre WW1 Victoria Cross winners http://www.antiquesa...c/vclist06.htm. Possibly the VC is an abbreviation of some Latin tag suitable for gravestones?

#10 centurion

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:32 PM

Looks as if this is him. http://members.westn...ary/Default.htm the account of the lighthouse disaster in Semaphore Bay is interesting No mention of the VC

#11 Blackblue

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

The Lighthouse Disaster:

http://trove.nla.gov...article/5352177

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

http://trove.nla.gov...1|||l-year=1912

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#12 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

Thanks for those links. the Family history page belongs to a friend of mine ... the gravestone was just located and a photograph taken hence the query about the VC.

Centurion ... the link to the VC list is broken ...


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#13 jon_armstrong

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:20 PM

Centurion ... the link to the VC list is broken ...


There is an extra "." at the end... take that off and it's fine.

#14 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:22 PM

mmmmm I did that and still couldn't get it to work ...
:glare:

#15 Droocoo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:17 AM

Certainly not an Australian VC. Do you know whether he even served?

#16 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:20 AM

don't think so he died before the war :)

#17 jon_armstrong

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:04 AM

He does seem a strange one... in various places he appears to have given his surname as Gowan, McGowan, MacGowan and Shields-MacGowan.

His forenames aren't consistent either - numerous sources online point out at various times he went by "Charles Joseph" and "George Charles".

His wife and family put an in memoriam notice in the newspaper two years later also claiming a VC...
http://trove.nla.gov...article/5428780

Am I wrong to think that being an assistant lighthouse keeper would be a bit of a step down for a retired army major at that time?

#18 Fedelmar

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    16th Battalion
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    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:08 AM

It certainly is a mystery ... and all what you have found is correct.
He died 1912 as is shown on his headstone. He was a policeman in WA at one stage too.
He goes from being a Major on his headstone to being a Captain in the memoriam notice.
The family a curious about the VC but as they can find nothing on him prior to coming to Australia they cant work out where to go next. I said I would post it here as I know some of the people on here love a good challenge but not much luck as yet.



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#19 Droocoo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:10 AM

Sandra, where does the headstone claim he was killed at??

#20 Fedelmar

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:12 AM

It says he was killed at Semaphore in South Australia.

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#21 centurion

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:16 AM

It's possible to search the VC registers here http://www.nationala...ctoriacross.asp

However I think I've solved the mystery. During his time in India he must have been a senior magistrate or Judge. Lists of members of senior benches produced by the Indian Ministry of Justice to this day still show senior magistrates with VC after their name (see extract)

LIST OF HON’BLE V.C./ MEMBERS
ACCCORDING TO THEIR DUE DATE OF RETIREMENT
(AS ON 01.11.2011)
MAY – DECEMBER 2011

1. SH. N. D. RAGHAVAN VC (J) BANGALORE BENCH 10.11.2011
2. SH. JOG SINGH M (J) BOMBAY BENCH 06.12.2011
3. SH. HRIDAY NARAIN M (A) JABALPUR BENCH 14.12.2011
4. SH. K.S. SUGATHAN M (A) AHMEDABAD BENCH 25.12.2011
5. SH. JUSTICE WAJAHAT ALI SHAH M (J) AHMEDABAD BENCH 30.12.2011

I won't bore by showing the complete list but either the Indian judicary is stuffed with Victoria Cross holders or it stands for something else



#22 Fedelmar

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    Service Personnel buried in Fremantle Cemetery W. Australia
    10th Light Horse
    11th Battalion
    44th Battalion (Battle of Broodseinde 4th October 1917)
    16th Battalion
    5th Australian Broad Gauge Railway Operating Company
    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:16 AM

scroll back to the links on the Lighthouse Disaster.

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#23 centurion

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:19 AM

Killed? thats odd! Cause of death?


Read the whole thread - as you will see he died in a Lighthouse disaster at Semaphore bay - its all covered in earlier posts

#24 Fedelmar

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  • Location:Pinjarra Springs, Western Australia
  • Interests:Service Personnel of Albany W. Australia
    Service Personnel buried in Fremantle Cemetery W. Australia
    10th Light Horse
    11th Battalion
    44th Battalion (Battle of Broodseinde 4th October 1917)
    16th Battalion
    5th Australian Broad Gauge Railway Operating Company
    WWII 69th Searchlight Battery

Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:21 AM

I am inclined to think it stands for something else ... the question is WHAT??? :thumbsup:

#25 TRAJAN

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:22 AM

I am inclined to think it stands for something else ... the question is WHAT??? :thumbsup:


Google 'Indian judiciary VC' and you get:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Thiruvananthapuram

And then, under JuristsIn these cases I assume Vice Chancellor...

Trajan