7 replies to this topic

[rd72]

Hello all,

I'm looking for information regarding the ceremonial applications of the axe as carried by Infantry Pioneers.  I know of a reference, Manual of Field Engineering Vol. 1 (All Arms) dated 1933, that apparantly has the movements in it, but I don't have it.

Is there anybody with a similar reference?  Or maybe someone with first hand knowledge? Its the movements on parade that I am interested in finding out.

Thanks,
Rob

[bob lembke]

rd72, on 13 January 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

Hello all,

I'm looking for information regarding the ceremonial applications of the axe as carried by Infantry Pioneers.  I know of a reference, Manual of Field Engineering Vol. 1 (All Arms) dated 1933, that apparantly has the movements in it, but I don't have it.

Is there anybody with a similar reference?  Or maybe someone with first hand knowledge? Its the movements on parade that I am interested in finding out.

Thanks,
Rob

I am sure that you know that a favorite at the French Bastille Day Parade is the Pioneers of the French Foreign Legion, marching wearing beards and aprons and carrying axes.

My father was a German Army pioneer {Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfer) }, and I know a lot about his service and the German Pioniere, and I never heard mention of the ceremonial use of the axe. (I am sure that they had some.)

Many men in his flame company carried short sharpened spades, for chopping up Frenchies in close quarters. At a pre-dawn raid at Verdun, on Hill 304, he attempted to save the life of a French officer (he had exellent French), and the guy repaid him by shooting my father in the hand reaching for his pistol at a distance of about 2" (Muzzle blast very painful, and burned him badly, my father reported), (you know the saying: "No good deed goes unpunished".), and in seconds my father's sergeant chopped the officer's head in two, Adrian helmet included, and my father, who had bent over in pain, also received some of the officer's brains down his collar and back, as well as the small-caliber bullet in his hand. (Officially this was not serious enough for the German Army to be considered a wound, and at first the medical types refused to remove the bullet, before it worked its way to the surface.)

More than you wanted to know. No one in his unit carried a rifle and bayonet in the attack, some carried the spade for trench fighting. His company commander was an infantry officer, not a Pionier=Offizier, and he tried to drill the men with rifles and bayonets, and my father and others shot him to death during infantry drill that they thought little of. End of rifle drill.

More than you wanted to know.

Bob Lembke

[GRUMPY]

More More!

Don't you just love it!

[GRUMPY]

rd72, on 13 January 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

Hello all,

I'm looking for information regarding the ceremonial applications of the axe as carried by Infantry Pioneers.  I know of a reference, Manual of Field Engineering Vol. 1 (All Arms) dated 1933, that apparantly has the movements in it, but I don't have it.

Is there anybody with a similar reference?  Or maybe someone with first hand knowledge? Its the movements on parade that I am interested in finding out.

Thanks,
Rob

No it does not. I have it in front of me! Detailed instructions for pick and shovel is all.

Why not contact a regiment which uses Pioneers, ceremonially apronned and with bearded sergeant, at the head of the battalion just behind the Royal Goat?

The Royal Welch Fusiliers, Wales's finest and only Royal Regiment.

[rd72]

Thanks all for your replies.  I had seen a reference to the Field Engineering manual as having a part in it on "Tool Drill"....  Thanks for checking...  As for the Royal Welch Fusiliers, now the Royal Welsh Regiment, I was looking for some video on the subject and it would seem that they have incorporated all the antecedent regiments' kit into the new one.  The Pioneers are wearing fusilier kit with fur caps, the Drums are wearing white foreign service helmets and the band is wearing home service helmets.....  Interesting.
Thanks again,

Rob

[ChrisH962]

GRUMPY, on 13 January 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

No it does not. I have it in front of me! Detailed instructions for pick and shovel is all.

Why not contact a regiment which uses Pioneers, ceremonially apronned and with bearded sergeant, at the head of the battalion just behind the Royal Goat?

The Royal Welch Fusiliers, Wales's finest and only Royal Regiment.

Unfortunately now known as "The Royal Welsh" since amalgamation with the RRW a couple of years ago (at which all my Flash-wearing ancestors must be spinning in their graves...).

You could try their website and ask for a message to be passed to the Pioneer Sgt?

[GRUMPY]

ChrisH962, on 29 January 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Unfortunately now known as "The Royal Welsh" since amalgamation with the RRW a couple of years ago (at which all my Flash-wearing ancestors must be spinning in their graves...).

You could try their website and ask for a message to be passed to the Pioneer Sgt?






Not Quite. The first battalion of the new abortion retain the title Welch, believe me.

[rd72]

Thanks Grumpy,

I sent an email to the Regimental HQ but to date I have not had a return.  It would appear that all ranks of the Royal Welsh wear the Fusilier Flash now.  They do also continue to parade with their Pioneers up front with axes and tools at the slope.  I also found a picture of them standing at ease with the axe at the slope......  If this is typical it would seem that there is no formal "drill" to accompany these tools on parade.  Simply carry it at the slope and  do everything from there. Does seem rather odd that such a ceremonial function would not have movements to go along with it though....

Thanks,

Rob