15 replies to this topic

[Chris_Baker]

I would be grateful if anyone with specialist knowledge could enlighten me on the existence of any form of records held in the UK that would include details of men of the Irish (National) Volunteers in the period 1916-1922, and in particular those held at the internment camp at Frongoch in Wales. The catalogue of the National Archives has given me a few leads, although the descriptions are not too specific.

[BLee]

Are you looking for information on someone? Although it does not mention Frongoch the Irish Time Book of the Sinn Fein Rebellion names all those arrested after the Rising and eventually ended up in Frongoch.  The link below is for a free download, you can also read it on line and it is searchable.

http://www.archive.org/details/sinnfeinrebellio00dubl

[Chris_Baker]

Thank you. Actually I already have good details of the individual (including his name in the above) and am now trying to extend that knowledge.

[museumtom]

Chris, if you pm me the name I will see if I have anything on him/ Cheers.
Tom.

[BLee]

Chris_Baker, on 26 January 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Thank you. Actually I already have good details of the individual (including his name in the above) and am now trying to extend that knowledge.

There was a good documentary on TG4 which is now on youtube, if you search youtube for Frongoch you will get it. It gives a good history of the camp and how it operated, it is in Irish, Welsh and English but has English subtitles.

[jdoyle]

Giving names was a big issue at the camp as there was a concern about some men being eligible for military service. This continued right up to the time they were released at the end of December 1916. It was one of the background issues that contributed to the camp doctor committing suicide (he wasn't supposed to give aid to men unless they gave their names). You may find UK records limited as a result.

if the UK records don't yield anything, the Irish records might.
Do you know if he survived to write a Witness Statement for the Bureau of Military History?

http://www.militarya...ributors_01.pdf

NLI has quite a few Fron-Goch resources

http://sources.nli.i...22&type=subject


My wife's gt uncle, William O'Brien, died shortly after his release from Fron-Goch in November 1916. His name was brought up in the Commons

http://hansard.millb.../jun/01/arrests

His brothers were "out" causing mischief in 1916 but were not amongst those arrested. They were both active all the way to the Civil War.  I've not found any info about the 3 of them to date in any UK archives other than the above Hansard entry.

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[kildaremark]

Chris,

If you give the county of origin/activity, it may help as there are many local publications specific to particular counties with a large number of names. If it is Kildare, you're in luck....

There is also a list of officers of the IRA published in the Irish Sword last year.

Mark

[Lostdub]

Hi,

You may know this already know this but copies of the Bureau of Military History records, that contain witness statements from those that took part in the Irish War of Independence, are also kept in the Irish National Archives in Dublin, which is easier to get access to then the military archives in Cathal Brugha Barracks in Dublin.  It is a great resource for information on the Irish Volunteers and the period 1913-22, if your man survived the Irish War of Independence and Civil War he may well have given a witness statement to the Bureau of Military History in the 1940s and 50s you could find his account in the archvies.  Its a great resource and I am using extensively myself on another project.

keith

[Chris_Baker]

Great info Keith. Thank you.

[kildaremark]

If he did give a statement, here is the index of the statements:-

http://www.militarya...story-1913-1921

and the pdf list:-

http://www.militarya...ontributors.pdf

Mark

[corisande]

They do say that the Witness Statements are going online soon...but they have been saying that for ages  

[Lostdub]

corisande, on 28 February 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

They do say that the Witness Statements are going online soon...but they have been saying that for ages  

From talking to people in the archives there budgets have been cut back so much that getting the witness statemetn online has fallen well down the priority list.  It looks like this scheme is another victim of Irelands banks bankrupting the country.

[museumtom]

This may be of interest.
Regards.
Tom.
http://war-talk.com/....php?f=20&t=135

[Michael Pegum]

jdoyle, on 26 January 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Giving names was a big issue at the camp as there was a concern about some men being eligible for military service.

How come? There was never conscription in Ireland. Surely, the reluctance to give names was more likely because of fear of action against their families, or against themselves following release (or just to be unco-operative!)

Michael

[David Underdown]

But the camp was in Wales, so if the authorities had been so-minded, they could have claimed the men were resident in Great Britain

[jdoyle]

Michael Pegum, on 24 March 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

How come? There was never conscription in Ireland. Surely, the reluctance to give names was more likely because of fear of action against their families, or against themselves following release (or just to be unco-operative!)

Michael

most had given names and addresses at the time of their arrest and these appeared in the Irish Times (and can be found in the Sinn Fein/1916 Rebellion Handbook). There was plenty of post coming into and going out of Fron-Goch; all (well nearly all) censored. Names and addresses of family were generally known to the authorities. Within camp though, putting a name to an individual remained an issue and is mentioned in a couple of books on the subject. Those who at one time lived in England/Scotland/Wales being considered liable for conscription - Lyn Ebenezers book about Fron-Goch puts the number eligible at 60.

Ebenezer is one of the guides for a visit to Fron-Goch next month.