11 replies to this topic

[henson]

Hello. . .

Re: my grand father, Pvt John Henson Dale, 3rd (Reserve)Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment).(no army # yet).

The 3rd (Reserve)Bn was formed in Aug 1914 in Derby and moved to Plymouth the same month. In May 1915 3rd moved to Sunderland as part of the Tyne Garrison. (which the 4th (Special Reserve) Bn SF (N & D) Regt moved to in Aug 1914). The 3rd and 4th Bns are known to have remained at Sunderland as part of the Tyne Garrison for the rest of the War

Would you please comment on the following:-

1. Even though a Reserve Bn. stayed at home; Is it possible that some of the men were transfered to other units including overseas?
                                              
2. Is there a way to find the names of those who were transferred and the units they went to? (no army # yet for Pvt Dale).

Looking forward to your thoughts. . . .Regards. . . .Jeff Dale

[ss002d6252]

Reserve battalions were used to train new recruits and to bring injured men back up to fitness before posting back to an active battalion.

There's no easy way to track men without their service records although sometimes blocks of men can be determined and movements derived from these.


John Henson Dale appears to have been #4215 and was posted to France on 27 Jan 1915 as a corporal. The MIC shows he was later K.I.A in 11 Mar 1915. I would suspect he was posted to make up losses in a battalion and was quite possibly posted directly to the 1st Bn.

Quote

Name: J. H. Dale
Birth Place: Nottingham
Residence: Bulwell, Notts
Death Date: 11 Mar 1915
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Nottingham
Rank: Corporal
Regiment: Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment)
Battalion: 1st Battalion
Number: 4215
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

[mikebriggs]

Dear both

Slight note of caution. The Notts and Derby Medal role has 4215 as John Henry Dale; might not be same person
cheers
Mike
 DSC01484.JPG   60.58K   2 downloads

[henson]

ss002d6252, on 29 January 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Reserve battalions were used to train new recruits and to bring injured men back up to fitness before posting back to an active battalion.

There's no easy way to track men without their service records although sometimes blocks of men can be determined and movements derived from these.


John Henson Dale appears to have been #4215 and was posted to France on 27 Jan 1915 as a corporal. The MIC shows he was later K.I.A in 11 Mar 1915. I would suspect he was posted to make up losses in a battalion and was quite possibly posted directly to the 1st Bn.

thanks for your response

1. You said :- "Reserve battalions were used to train new recruits and to bring injured men back up to fitness before posting back to an active battalion"

Have I got it right then ?:
reserve battalions were just Training/Depot/return to fitness Battalions. . .NOT FOR RESUPPLYING SOLDIERS TO MAKE UP LOSSES IN FRONT LINE UNITS

2. I am afraid John H Dale #4215 is not my man. (John Henson Dale survived the war, altho' we believe his leg was injured due to an accident with a train)

Regards. .. Jeff Dale

[henson]

mikebriggs, on 29 January 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Dear both

Slight note of caution. The Notts and Derby Medal role has 4215 as John Henry Dale; might not be same person
cheers
Mike
DSC01484.JPG

Thanks Mike
I am afraid John H Dale #4215 is not my man. (John Henson Dale survived the war, altho' we believe his leg was injured due to an accident with a train)
all the best. .. Jeff Dale

[ss002d6252]

Quote

reserve battalions were just Training/Depot/return to fitness  Battalions. . .NOT FOR RESUPPLYING SOLDIERS TO MAKE UP LOSSES IN FRONT  LINE UNITS

Making up losses in the front line battalions was one of the aims of the battalion as training battalions - later in the war I believe the situation changed and specific training battalions were introduced for new recruits.

[Graham Stewart]

henson, on 29 January 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Hello. . .

Re: my grand father, Pvt John Henson Dale, 3rd (Reserve)Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment).(no army # yet).

The 3rd (Reserve)Bn was formed in Aug 1914 in Derby............

Actually the battalion had been in existence since 1908. It was 'embodied' in August 1914 and the role of the battalion(and the 4th) was to supply reiforcements to both of the regular battalions, a job it and others like it, continued with until the end of the war. After the Armistice these battalions may, if like the Northumberland Fusiliers, have been used as a nucleus for the formation of the 'new' regular battalions.

For more on the role of the Special Reserve go to this link;-
http://armyservicenu...ve-in-1908.html

[henson]

Graham Stewart, on 27 February 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Actually the battalion had been in existence since 1908. It was 'embodied' in August 1914 and the role of the battalion(and the 4th) was to supply reiforcements to both of the regular battalions, a job it and others like it, continued with until the end of the war. After the Armistice these battalions may, if like the Northumberland Fusiliers, have been used as a nucleus for the formation of the 'new' regular battalions.

For more on the role of the Special Reserve go to this link;-
http://armyservicenu...ve-in-1908.html

Thanks Graham. Very helpful. would you know how transfers from Reserves to Front Line were documented ?(other than on the soldiers' record).

[Graham Stewart]

Based upon the Northumberlands, they were documented in three sources - firstly the "War Diary" of the Reserve(home) unit, which usually only had the numbers of men involved; to which unit sent and who was in command of the draft. Sadly I've only ever come across one of these Diaries, but suspect all units had them and that they were probably destroyed post-War. Secondly "Part II Orders", which happens to be more detailed, with the actual names of those coming and going - again though I've only ever come across one complete set of these. Thirdly the "War Diary" of the receiving unit - again mainly mentioning from where, the number of men and who commanded them - however this sort of information depended on the thoroughness of those involved in writing them up.

In reality it's a hit and miss outcome and depends on how the Regiment/Corps concerned regarded these sort of documents historically, and as we sadly know more seems to have been destroyed than kept.

[kenf48]

If he was injured by a train while serving he may have been discharged as a result.  There are a couple of 'John Dales' in the SWB Rolls to this Regiment.
His age might help.


Ken

[henson]

Graham Stewart, on 28 February 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Based upon the Northumberlands, they were documented in three sources - firstly the "War Diary" of the Reserve(home) unit, which usually only had the numbers of men involved; to which unit sent and who was in command of the draft. Sadly I've only ever come across one of these Diaries, but suspect all units had them and that they were probably destroyed post-War. Secondly "Part II Orders", which happens to be more detailed, with the actual names of those coming and going - again though I've only ever come across one complete set of these. Thirdly the "War Diary" of the receiving unit - again mainly mentioning from where, the number of men and who commanded them - however this sort of information depended on the thoroughness of those involved in writing them up.

In reality it's a hit and miss outcome and depends on how the Regiment/Corps concerned regarded these sort of documents historically, and as we sadly know more seems to have been destroyed than kept.

Many thanks for your reply. ..Jeff Dale

[henson]

kenf48, on 28 February 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

If he was injured by a train while serving he may have been discharged as a result.  There are a couple of 'John Dales' in the SWB Rolls to this Regiment.
His age might help.


Ken

Thanks Ken. .We have eliminated him from the medal cards ( he was 23 in 1914 ). .. .Jeff