11 replies to this topic

[Uncle Morris]

Hi All,

I've just taken delivery of my Winchester made Enfield P14.

I'm really chuffed with it but I need some help to source some missing parts:

To explain my rifle had a Parker Hale P5b rear target sight fitted and I like to keep my service rifles in as issued spec.

Is there an easy way to distinguish a P14 from A P17 rear sight assembly?

Will a Remmington or Eddystone made P14 rear sight assembly fit my Winchester?

Why is my bolt stop spring loose?

From what I can tell, looking at a poor quality exploded parts diagram there seems to be a round button called a spring seat

that sits beneath the bolt stop spring? It is not present on my rifle.

Any help with these questions will be very much appreciated.

Cheers all,


Uncle Morris.

[4thGordons]

Uncle Morris, on 31 January 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Hi All,
Is there an easy way to distinguish a P14 from A P17 rear sight assembly?

Will a Remmington or Eddystone made P14 rear sight assembly fit my Winchester?

Why is my bolt stop spring loose?

From what I can tell, looking at a poor quality exploded parts diagram there seems to be a round button called a spring seat

that sits beneath the bolt stop spring? It is not present on my rifle.

Any help with these questions will be very much appreciated.

Cheers all,
Uncle Morris.

M1917 and P14 rear sights are graduated differently
M1917 are graduated from 200-1600 yards whilst P14s are graduated from 200-1650 (ie there is a small additional mark above the 16 on the left side of the slider)
The sight parts should fit, regardless of manufacturer, although my experience has shown that there is sometimes the need for careful (minor) fitting.
One source of problems can be if the backsight axis screw is bent.

I am not sure on your second issue
As far as I am aware  the bolt stop assembly consists of the Bolt stop, Bolt stop screw (small pointed screw upon which the stop pivots)botl stop spring, and ejector.
Does your rifle still have the volley sight fitted?
The M1917 bolt stop is slightly different in shape and I do not thing M1917 and P14 bolt stops are interchangeable.

I'll go and have a look at mine and see if I can work out what is going on. the most obvious reason for looseness would be a bad spring I would suppose.
I can post a detailed parts picture if it would help
Chris

EDIT: ahhhhh I think I may understand. If you do not have the rear volley sight apeture fitted or at least its base then your spring will have no tension it in (I think this is what you mean by the button) which would cause the looseness. The "button" was fitted to M1917 rifles which never had volley sights but provides the necessary spacing. On most British P14 rifles modified in the run up to WWII the peep arm was ground off leaving the base in place to provide the spacing. I do not know if a M1917 Bolt stop spring rest will fit on a P14.
Be aware reassembling the bolt stop is a bit fiddly!

Edited by 4thGordons, 31 January 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Uncle Morris]

4thGordons, on 31 January 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

M1917 and P14 rear sights are graduated differently
M1917 are graduated from 200-1600 yards whilst P14s are graduated from 200-1650 (ie there is a small additional mark above the 16 on the left side of the slider)
The sight parts should fit, regardless of manufacturer, although my experience has shown that there is sometimes the need for careful (minor) fitting.
One source of problems can be if the backsight axis screw is bent.

I am not sure on your second issue
As far as I am aware  the bolt stop assembly consists of the Bolt stop, Bolt stop screw (small pointed screw upon which the stop pivots)botl stop spring, and ejector.
Does your rifle still have the volley sight fitted?
The M1917 bolt stop is slightly different in shape and I do not thing M1917 and P14 bolt stops are interchangeable.

I'll go and have a look at mine and see if I can work out what is going on. the most obvious reason for looseness would be a bad spring I would suppose.
I can post a detailed parts picture if it would help
Chris

EDIT: ahhhhh I think I may understand. If you do not have the rear volley sight apeture fitted or at least its base then your spring will have no tension it in (I think this is what you mean by the button) which would cause the looseness. The "button" was fitted to M1917 rifles which never had volley sights but provides the necessary spacing. On most British P14 rifles modified in the run up to WWII the peep arm was ground off leaving the base in place to provide the spacing. I do not know if a M1917 Bolt stop spring rest will fit on a P14.
Be aware reassembling the bolt stop is a bit fiddly!

Thanks for the speedy response Chris.
I've just downloaded a schematic from Numrich and can see there is a part they call a 'bolt stop spring rest.'
It looks as you described ,a ground off base from a rear peep sight.
Re :the differing graduation of the rear sight ladders,
is the difference purely the addition of 1650 yards to 1600 yards or are all the graduations incorrect for the '303
cartridge as opposed to the '30-06 on the P1917?
Sorry that reads really badly but I think you'll get my drift.
Liam.

[TonyE]

Uncle Morris, on 31 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

....Sorry that reads really badly but I think you'll get my drift.
Liam.

The foresight should be adjusted to compensate for your drift.

If indeed you do not have either the rear long range sight or at least the stub of it (which is likely if there is a PH target sight fitted) it will be quite hard to find an original here in the UK. Try Jim or Geoff at EFD Rifles as I think they do a repro part:
www.efdrifles.com

Cheers
TonyE

[4thGordons]

Uncle Morris, on 31 January 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Thanks for the speedy response Chris.
I've just downloaded a schematic from Numrich and can see there is a part they call a 'bolt stop spring rest.'
It looks as you described ,a ground off base from a rear peep sight.
Re :the differing graduation of the rear sight ladders,
is the difference purely the addition of 1650 yards to 1600 yards or are all the graduations incorrect for the '303
cartridge as opposed to the '30-06 on the P1917?
Sorry that reads really badly but I think you'll get my drift.
Liam.

The graduations are different.
I think this is becuase the 30.06 had a flatter trajectory (leave that one to the ballistics experts!)
Just eyeballing the rear sights, the markings on the M1917 look closer together

You should not have any trouble getting the parts with the exception (as TonyE says) of the peep arm -- although I think Numrich also make repro.s
M1917 parts are plentiful in the US, but I am unsure if the M1917 stop-spring rest will work. I belive the slot in it (in which the spring sits) is a different dimension on the M1917.
Chris

[Uncle Morris]

Thanks for the info Tony,

I will try EFD for the peep arm.



Liam.



[quote name='TonyE' timestamp='1328043153' post='1704321']
The foresight should be adjusted to compensate for your drift.

[Uncle Morris]

Once again Chris many thanks for the swift response.

I will ask Numrich re the 1917 bolt stop spring rest fitting if not will fit a repro rear peep arm.

Is there any other source here in the UK you knowmof where I might fall in with any of these parts?

Liam.

4thGordons, on 31 January 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

The graduations are different.
I think this is becuase the 30.06 had a flatter trajectory (leave that one to the ballistics experts!)
Just eyeballing the rear sights, the markings on the M1917 look closer together

You should not have any trouble getting the parts with the exception (as TonyE says) of the peep arm -- although I think Numrich also make repro.s
M1917 parts are plentiful in the US, but I am unsure if the M1917 stop-spring rest will work. I belive the slot in it (in which the spring sits) is a different dimension on the M1917.
Chris

[4thGordons]

Uncle Morris, on 31 January 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Once again Chris many thanks for the swift response.
I will ask Numrich re the 1917 bolt stop spring rest fitting if not will fit a repro rear peep arm.
Is there any other source here in the UK you knowmof where I might fall in with any of these parts?
Liam.

You are welcome.
I don't know the current legal or company policy status of small parts such as this on eBay in the UK but they pop up all the time on there in the US so you might try a search. (in fact I just looked and someone is selling a complete rear sight on ebay.co.uk although it appears to be 1)pricey and 2)from an M1917.

Chris

[Uncle Morris]

Yeah, I saw that one on ebay. He's looking funny money for it and it's from a P17 as you say.

Numich seem to have all the parts I need so I think that's the way forward.

Many thanks again for your help Chris, I will post some pictures when I get the rifle

finished.

P.S. You mentioned earlier you had a schematic, is it any better than Numriches?

If it is would you mind posting it or emailing me a copy?

Cheers,

Liam.

4thGordons, on 31 January 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

You are welcome.
I don't know the current legal or company policy status of small parts such as this on eBay in the UK but they pop up all the time on there in the US so you might try a search. (in fact I just looked and someone is selling a complete rear sight on ebay.co.uk although it appears to be 1)pricey and 2)from an M1917.

Chris

[4thGordons]

Liam - no my schematic is no better.
I would suggest the late (Charles) Skip Stratton's book (North Cape Publishing, "For Collectors Only" Vol 4 in the Enfield series) on the P14/M1917. It is not perfect but it has a full and pretty detailed parts breakdown and lots of detail (also an appendix on reassembling the bolt stop!) It has quite a lot of component drawings and is clearly written and easily available for far less than Skennerton's work on the same subject - Skennerton is more comprehensive on numbers and official lists/changes but Stratton is a good technical description. (ISBN 1-882391-29-2)
Chris

[Uncle Morris]

Thanks for the info on Stratton, I've just purchased it and the Skennerton (Small arms identification series) from gunbooks.co.uk, really good seller if you don't already use them.

By the way, is the correct original wood finish BLO? same as Lee Enfield? The wood on mine is quite dark,  American Walnut I think.

Cheers, Liam.

[TonyE]

Yes, that is the normal finish.

For the part you need it might be worth giving Fultons at Bisley a phone call. They may even have an original part (but it won't be cheap!). They have had some repro P.14 parts made the past, including some Mark I (F) rear sight leaves.

http://www.fultonsofbisley.com/

Regards
TonyE