32 replies to this topic

[GRANVILLE]

I've been working towards these crates since Christmas, when my daughter bought me one of Geoff Carefoot's instruction and label packs. These are the grenade crates, made to go with a display being put on at a local museum. I thought I'd show them as an encouragement to anyone else who might be considering the job of making some, and also as an opportunity to say thanks to both Geoff and Gordon Corbet who both helped with advice on how to go about the task. Incidentally Geoff & I had some discussions on why the different coloured cleats on the ends; these No 36's having the pink colour. I put forward the suggestion that at a time of much illiteracy, it was an easy means of making sure everyone knew what the box contained? Please say if you know for sure.

Dave Upton

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•  CRATES.jpg   81.79K   7 downloads

[TonyE]

Yes, it was common practice to differentiate different stores by colour for that reason.

Over time the system expanded to using symbols for each type of ammunition, for example. This enabled non English speaking local labour in depots and ports around the empire to identify different types of store.

Here are a couple of WW2 examples using a telephone and a butterfly as the recognition symbols.

Regards
TonyE

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•  FGIz.jpg   48.66K   3 downloads
•  20mm H HEI IIz.jpg   48.42K   2 downloads

[GRANVILLE]

TonyE, Thanks for the confirmation etc.
Dave Upton

[auchonvillerssomme]

Did they have different size boxes for SAA during WW1? I notice in the 1936 treatise it mentions several different sizes.

[GRANVILLE]

Ammo crates or boxes came in a range of sizes, SAA coming in a very different box to the grenade crates I have featured. I'm working on some of these at the moment.
Here's a great photo which shows a chap sitting on the same type of grenade crate.

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•  dump.jpg   34.82K   12 downloads

[Chief_Chum]

Hi Dave,
I'm sure that when we had a heap of those made for 'The Trench' TV series we found that the pink indicated that the boxes also contained the baseplates for rifle grenades.
Cheers,
Taff

[munster]

Nice piece of work Dave.john

[GRANVILLE]

Thanks for that Taff, very useful to know as these are destined for a museum display and the question is sure to be asked numerous times. Thanks also to John, much appreciated.

Dave Upton

[a6skin9]

Here are some late war crates that I built for a recent  living history.

[TonyE]

Here are a couple of interesting original grenade crate labels. They were taken in the little museum in the Marie in Loos-en-Gohelle.

Regards
TonyE

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•  Image1.jpg   82.76K   3 downloads
•  Image2.jpg   96.72K   3 downloads

[33rd div mgc]

Thought I'd putup this box, had it for many years, it clearly looks as if it's been re used afew times.

              It's interesting to notice the following  

              .455 INCH

               MARK 6

               IN ********

              CARTONS  

            Was the painted out word after IN 'packets' ?  

You can also clearly see the quick identification markings of a green revolver's cylinder with 6z over stamped.

Can't find anydates on the box, the only other stamping is K21

On the front ofthe box where the carrying handle is also stamped in red the letters

UNSERV***** the rest is not clear (red paint)

Understamp is GPOSS512 in yellow paint  

Any help withthese marking would be great


Cheers


Dickie

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•  .455 ammo box (2).JPG   34.29K   6 downloads
•  .455 ammo box (3).JPG   33.43K   6 downloads
•  .455 ammo box.JPG   31.45K   4 downloads

[TonyE]

I don't have that particular label myself, but I suspect the blacked out word is "bundles", as until WW2 it was normal for most SAA to be packed in twine tied paper bundles. Picture attached of earlier Mark II lead bulleted rounds in a bundle. (twine missing).

When the .455 inch Mark 6z round was introduced in late 1939 it was the first pistol round to be packed in cardboard cartons. The date on the box will be the Kynoch date of work and originally would have been something like "K 21.6.41", but all you have remaining is the day part of the date.

Regards
TonyE

EDIT: I have just noticed the yellow stencil on the box end "K  16.12.??" That will be the date of work. Can you decypher the year. Also, can you read the label number on the top left hand of the label. it should be "H" followed by a number.

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•  455 bundle small.jpg   43.58K   1 downloads

[33rd div mgc]

TonyE, on 18 April 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

I don't have that particular label myself, but I suspect the blacked out word is "bundles", as until WW2 it was normal for most SAA to be packed in twine tied paper bundles. Picture attached of earlier Mark II lead bulleted rounds in a bundle. (twine missing).

When the .455 inch Mark 6z round was introduced in late 1939 it was the first pistol round to be packed in cardboard cartons. The date on the box will be the Kynoch date of work and originally would have been something like "K 21.6.41", but all you have remaining is the day part of the date.

Regards
TonyE

EDIT: I have just noticed the yellow stencil on the box end "K  16.12.??" That will be the date of work. Can you decypher the year. Also, can you read the label number on the top left hand of the label. it should be "H" followed by a number.

Hi TonyE

The details on the top left reads N. 1017

Looking at the lable on the other side of the box ( not in the same condition as the one in the photo, ) it reads in green top left H. 2897, this lable has the green revolver cylinder with 'VI z' and not '6 z' as on the other side.

The yellow paint  reads K18 - 12 - 43

Cheers Dickie

[TonyE]

Thanks for that, H.2897 fits in nicely with the 1943 date of work.

This would have been affixed at the Kynoch factory when the ammo was packed, but the other label, N1017 indicates that it was then issued to the Royal Navy as they had their own systen of labelling under the Director of Naval Ordnance.

The difference between the "VIz" and the "6z" is because it was relabelled after 1945. Previously all Mark numbers were in Roman numerals but in 1945 this was changed to normal Indo-Arabic numbers.

Just so you know what the rounds looked like, here is a .455 inch Mark VI round with the cupro-nickel jacket.

Regards
TonyE

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•  Markk VUI.jpg   17.36K   1 downloads

[GRANVILLE]

a6skin9, on 18 April 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Here are some late war crates that I built for a recent  living history.

Don'tknow how I missed this posting, but having made some myself I feel I can say these are really good! Well done.

Dave Upton

[a6skin9]

Thanks Dave.  My 3 year old was asking me just today when he can help me make more boxes.

[GRANVILLE]

a6skin9, on 23 April 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

Thanks Dave.  My 3 year old was asking me just today when he can help me make more boxes.

Oh boy! I bet your heart leapt with joy at the prospect! Did you complete the internal details while you were about it?

Dave

[a6skin9]

GRANVILLE, on 23 April 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Oh boy! I bet your heart leapt with joy at the prospect! Did you complete the internal details while you were about it?

Dave

I put the centre dividers in all of them and the bomb dividers in one.  They all have the labels on the inside but no tool holder.  Next ones I make I will do up proper, these were test crates to get the process down.  Now I just have to get brave and attempt a .303 ammo crate.

[GRANVILLE]

a6skin9, on 23 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I put the centre dividers in all of them and the bomb dividers in one.  They all have the labels on the inside but no tool holder.  Next ones I make I will do up proper, these were test crates to get the process down.  Now I just have to get brave and attempt a .303 ammo crate.

Bit of a challenge, but they can be done!

Dave

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•  011a.jpg   72.36K   5 downloads

[Bruce n]

Is it possible to get the dimension of these boxes, wouldn't mind make a couple myself.

[GRANVILLE]

Bruce,

Most of what you see above will have been made from plans produced by Geoff Carefoot who supplies a large range of other replica items related to WW1. You can find out more from his web-site: http://www.tommyspac...com/contact.htm

Dave

[Peter Doyle]

Great examples of the crates, thanks for posting. Chris Foster is beavering away on a grenade box for a project of ours, so can't wait to see it. Thanks to dave for all his help on this, too!

Peter

[Gunner Bailey]

GRANVILLE, on 01 February 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Ammo crates or boxes came in a range of sizes, SAA coming in a very different box to the grenade crates I have featured. I'm working on some of these at the moment.
Here's a great photo which shows a chap sitting on the same type of grenade crate.

For information this photo is of Australian Troops at Arras in 1917.

John

[Chris CPGW]

I'm going to add some images of the grenade box that Peter mentioned I was making, in this thread  due to  Granville (David). Without his time, help & advice I wouldn't have got half as far on with the project as I did.So a very big thank you to you David, its greatly appreciated .

Plan and labels for the box were bought from this company http://www.tommyspac...com/contact.htm  Although there are one or two inaccuracies on the plan that might cause some gnashing of teeth or wood depending on which is at hand. These mistakes  have been passed onto the company whom hopefully have rectifed the plans for future purchase.






You'll note that there are some inaccuracies of my own. The use of planed timber, filler and screws, but its my party and......

[Chris CPGW]

The carrying cleats were replaced at a later stage as I felt that they wern't large enough.