57 replies to this topic

[michaeldr]

alan two, on 07 February 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

[/i]On the 12th August the 59th Brigade War Diary records at 8am 'FOO reported Turks on move near 'R'.  There isn't a map indicating where 'R' is within the War Diary

Alan,

This map shows the numbering of the main squares of the map and the lettering of the smaller squares. From the example given in square 116 you will be able to work out where 'R' is in each of the other squares.
However, to identify which 'R' the FOO was referring to you need to know the number of the main square. Is one quoted directly before the 'R'? Or can his note be read as the continuation of a previous entry where the main square's number is given?



I hope that is of some help
Michael

[alan two]

Hi Michael

Thanks for the map.  Unfortunately Lieutenant Colonel Rettie does not give the grid number in the War Diary. I had considered the lettering but I'm not sure I can rely on it as, for example, on 22^nd August he states that the Battery was '…told off to fire……South of B of Brunu'. In early September he does helpfully state that 'A' Battery are at 'X', Hill 53. As we know they were on the North-West slopes of Chocolate Hill around 105, L, 4. It therefore appears that he has his own lettering system and does refer to '(Sketch 1)'.  The sketch is not with the War Diary.

Regards

Alan

[michaeldr]

michaeldr, on 06 February 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The Turks had motor cars for their staff, but that apart there is no mention in the literature of heavy transport on Gallipoli. As I quoted earlier, oxen were their first choice for moving heavy guns and, such was the terrain, they were not always successful.
The first mention of anything remotely 'modern' in this respect is nearly three months later, in November, when an Austrian “24.cm motor howitzer battery” arrived; see Kannenggiesser page 238.

Whilst looking for something else and in the process dipping into 'Five Years in Turkey' I came across the following from Marshal Liman; see his page 73
quote – 'The railroad station in Usunköpri (Uzun Kjupru) in Thrace was seven marches distant and the means of transport were very limited. In those days the armies in Turkey had no auto trucks and it was with much difficulty that the columns of camels, pack animals and Turkish ox wagons managed to get a few tons to the front.'

[bob lembke]

Michael;

Yes, thanks for that. I have long been bemused by the many reports of the Turks having all sorts of things at Gallipoli which clearly were not there. The station mentioned was the closest rail point, and I think it was 90-100 miles away. Recently we were discussing, somewhere on the forum, a supposed Turkish armored train at the water's edge exchanging salvos with the RN. When one pointed out that there was no rail line to there, it was argued that you don't necessarily have to have a rail line in order to have an armored train. Of course what effort would it be to get an armored train to Gallipoli by bad roads and weak bridges, presumably pulled by oxen. And to what purpose? How vunerable would an armored train be, with little or no track, at the edge of a body of water possibly opposing a dozen capital ships. Then it was argued that it was a 60 cm field rail system. I can't see an armored train on a 60 cm rail line fire anything bigger than 57 mm, or something like that. Duel with the Queen Elizabeth?

The Turks could not keep the men in sand-bags, as they would instantly be cut up by ragged soldiers trying to patch their ragged uniforms. Traction engines?

Bob

[michaeldr]

bob lembke, on 06 March 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

The station mentioned was the closest rail point

Bob,

Thanks for your input here.
To help illustrate the distance involved, the railhead used by the Ottomans is shown underlined in red on the map below.
It is indeed a very long way from the battlefronts on the peninsula, especially if everything had to brought there at the walking pace of an ox or a camel

regards
Michael

[RobL]

This photo has popped up on the superb Gallipoli, 1915 facebook page (if you're on facebook and not a member already, I wholeheartedly reccomend it), showing mobile Turkish Bakeries - certainly look similar to steam portable engines/small traction engines. Photo is from Timothy de Wilde's collection

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[Lancashire Fusilier]

A photograph of a French Trench-Digging Machine, published in " The Times History of the War " 1919.
LF

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[centurion]

RobL, on 19 June 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

This photo has popped up on the superb Gallipoli, 1915 facebook page (if you're on facebook and not a member already, I wholeheartedly reccomend it), showing mobile Turkish Bakeries - certainly look similar to steam portable engines/small traction engines. Photo is from Timothy de Wilde's collection

This is almost certainly Palestine. The photo appears in "Palestine 1917" this being Robert Wilson MC's account of his experiences there. The photo was found in a camera captured from a Turkish offficer (Doctor I think) which was then used by Wilson to record his own experiences finishing off the same roll of film!