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Wilkinson Sword numbers WW1


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#1 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:36 PM

Hello,
I was looking at a Broadsword this week which was made by Wilkinson which had a number around 48000 on the blade. Would this be WW1 manufacture? Does anyone else have a sword with a similar number on it and if you have have you tried to get a copy of it's entry from the owner of the Wilkinson Sword archives? I understand that there are some gaps in the archive. The owner of the sword thinks it was owned by an ancestor, but is not sure which one, it would be great to find out for her, if possible.

Many thanks,
Stewart

#2 tempaire78

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:08 PM

Hello,



I have a HLI Officers' Field Officers sword numbered 48080 which was made in 1914 so your broadsword is should be 1913/1914.

However, contact Richard Milner at the Wilkinson Sword Archive and see what he has for you. By the way, are there any intials on the sword that may help identify the owner?


tempaire78

#3 tempaire78

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:22 PM

Here are some pictures of the sword for your reference.

Attached Files



#4 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

Hello,
Thank you very much for your help. It is great to know that it is from the Great War period, or just before. I had been searching online for similar numbered blades but did not have much luck, so your information has been a great help. I will see if I can get a note of the exact number and then contact the archive. Do you have any idea how much a search costs?

Regards,

Stewart

#5 tempaire78

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

Hi Stewart,


His contact address is


richard@armsresearch.co.uk


Would you mind posting some pictures of the sword? It should be interesting to see.



Thanks

#6 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

Hello,
I hope to see her later this week. I have been helping her do some family tree work. I think it should be no problem to get some photo's of the sword. Thanks for sending the chaps email, I will probably contact him after I have spoken to the lady with the sword.

Regards,

Stewart

#7 tempaire78

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:19 PM

Hello,



I just had a word with Richard Milner to discuss my Highland Light Infantry Field Officers sword and he told me that whole the entry of the ledger is blank but it was made in February 1914. So, with your sword number made slightly earlier than mine, I would reckon yours to be December 1913/January 1914. Once your lady friend can ascertain the name of the officer who bought the sword, then you can easliy start with the London Gazette.



Good luck


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#8 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:46 AM

Hello,
I was looking at a Broadsword this week which was made by Wilkinson which had a number around 48000 on the blade. Would this be WW1 manufacture? Does anyone else have a sword with a similar number on it and if you have have you tried to get a copy of it's entry from the owner of the Wilkinson Sword archives? I understand that there are some gaps in the archive. The owner of the sword thinks it was owned by an ancestor, but is not sure which one, it would be great to find out for her, if possible.

Many thanks,
Stewart


Stewart,

I can give you a confirmed time line, as I have a Henry Wilkinson Grenadier Guards Officer's sword with the serial number 51270, which belonged to Captain Francis Layland-Barrett ( Later Sir Francis ) of the Grenadier Guards.
I checked with Richard Milner of the Wilkinson Archive, and he was able to confirm, and send me a copy of the Sales Ledger entry, which shows this sword was sold to F. H. G. Layland-Barrett of the Grenadier Guards in January 1916.
I also have a photograph of him wearing the sword.

At least we know your sword's serial number of around 48000 pre-dates January 1916.

Captain Francis Layland-Barratt fought in France with the Grenadier Guards, and at the battle of Les Boeufs in September 1916, he was awarded the Military Cross for conspicuous gallantry, and he was subsequently wounded in the battle at Gouzeaucourt in December 1917.

I am attaching some photographs of the sword, the blade of which is personalised to him with his monogrammed initials
" FHGLB " for Francis Henry Godolphin Layland-Barrett, his Family Crest and Motto. Also a photograph of Captain Layland-Barrett wearing the sword, and also wearing his Military Cross, plus a photograph of his actual medals including his Military Cross.

Regards,
Leo

#9 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:50 AM

Captain Layland-Barrett's sword.

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#10 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:53 AM

Captain Layland-Barrett in dress uniform of the Grenadier Guards wearing the sword, and his Military Cross, and also a photograph of his medals, including his Military Cross.

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#11 tempaire78

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:57 AM

Now I know where this sword went! I was too late with Vincent!



Thank you for sharing.



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#12 Lancashire Fusilier

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:00 AM

Now I know where this sword went! I was too late with Vincent!



Thank you for sharing.



Tempaire78


My pleasure,
Leo

#13 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

Hello folks,
What a very interesting thread this has turned out to be. I now fancy trying to get a Wilkinson Sword for my own collection! I had only heard that there was an archive but had never heard how extensive it was and what sort of details were availiable.
I will speak with the lady later this week and see if she is keen to order a copy of the swords entry in the archive. At present there seems to be at least 3 Officers who the sword may have belonged to, all pre war commissioned. Hopfully we can make a match.
How would you tell an officers broadsword sword from a NCO's issue one? Were they marked differently? It is just a thought as she also had a relative who were SNCO in TF unit in 1914, I seem to remember.

Regards,
Stewart

#14 The 26TH Yankee

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

Hi Tempaire78,

Wow! What a beautiful piece of work that sword is. Now I have to go wash the drool off of my keyboard.

Thanks a lot :lol:

#15 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:38 PM

Hello folks,
I saw the sword in the 'flesh' today. Up until now I had only seen a couple of photo's of it. The sword is in the Metal Scabbard. It has the Royal Coat of Arms with 'By Warrant' below. It is also marked 'Henry Wilkinson, Pall Mall, London'. The other side has the proof mark with HW in the centre of a 6 sided copper disc. The number on the sword is 47868. I was a bit surprised to see that the blade is plain, not even having a Royal Cypher on it! Would this be an SNCO's sword? It does look like it has had a bit of a hard life. There are no view marks etc as found on bayonets, dirks and issue swords.

I will try and post some photo's later. Do others think there is any chance of the Wilkinson Archive turning up anything of interest?

All the best,

Stewart

#16 pbrydon

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

There was a Wilkinson Sword collectors society in the 1990`s,they were part of the Wilkinson company and issued news letters with some interesting articles.

For a fee you could submit details of a Wilkinson sword and they would provide you with all the details they had about it.

Sadly I think both the company and the Collectors Society are no longer in existance.

P.B.

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#17 pbrydon

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:58 PM

Just found this copy of an original document for a sword I once owned,which I got through the Wilkinson Sword collectors Society.

P.B.

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#18 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

Hello,
The Archive is now owned by the man named above, so it is still possible to research Wilkinson swords. However, I am keen to know first if a plain bladed Scottish Broadsword is an indication of one carried by NCO's etc or if it is still possible that it could have been bought by an Officer? You see it costs 18 for a copy of the ledger entry and this may or may not name the owner. If it is an NCO's sword, then it seems that perhaps only a regiment may be named.

Regards,

Stewart

#19 tempaire78

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Stewart,



The only we can tell is if you could attach some photos please. Would that be posible?



Also, some swords made for officers, particulary from 1915-1918 were devoid of etchings and decoration as an economy/time measure. Not all were produced that way from experience.


Best



tempaire

#20 tempaire78

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

By the way, did you get in touch with Richard Milner? He is the only one who can provide the information on the officer who purchased the sword, that is if its him. However, he will not charge if your record is blank, so if I were you, I would write to him with the email I provided for you the last time.



Best



tempaire

#21 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:39 PM

Hello Tempaire,
I have not emailed him yet as I thought that he would only answer enquiries which were sent with a cheque. I will send him an email tonight and see what he thinks. I will try and post some photo's. All the best ,

Stewart

#22 tempaire78

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:50 PM

Hi,



He's online now so you may catch him.



By the way, he take cards too!


Its best rather trying to second guess is to speak directly with him.



Good Luck!



Tempaire

#23 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

Hello,
Just sent him an email.

Here are some photo's of the sword on this hosting site.

http://s1050.photobu...jpg<br /><br /> Regards,

Stewart

#24 tempaire78

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:22 AM

I just spoke to Richard and he sending me a copy of the Wilkinson proof ledger of Brigadier Robert O'Hara Livesay, the DSO winner in South Africa and the famous cricket player which sword I had just purchased.

Best of luck if he found something on your man.

Regards


Tempaire

#25 gnr.ktrha

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:30 PM

Hello,
I sent Richard an email last night, but so far have heard nothing from him. Hope to hear from him soon, however if you would not mind giving him a wee nudge along if that might help that would be great. A basically asked him if there was a name associated with the sword and if there is I would like to buy a copy of the entry.
A have shown pictures of the sword to a friend and he thinks that there is a good chance that the sword is that worn by a SNCO. It is possible that the SNCO could buy the swords themselves.

All very interesting stuff.

Regards,

Stewart