25 replies to this topic

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

I am looking for some information on how the tin opener on the 8173/1914 and 6353/1905 Clasp knives (and the variants) was used.

Where can I find an accurate description of how the tin opener was used, preferrably with images or video?

I have searched the net, forums and You Tube and can't find anything.



8173/1914, 6353/1905, AP301


Most people are quite amazed when they look at the knives and find out that the stubby blade is indeed a tin opener, the next question is usually "How is it used" and I have never been able to accurately explain.


Regards Dutchy

[DavidB]

Without having any manual on how to use it, I would think you first stab the blade into the can edge  then with a backward and forward movement, using the


little knob in the middle of the blade as a fulcrum on the topside of the can , gradually work your way around until open. Slow for sure but better than


having to chew metal.

[GRANVILLE]

[quote name='rgartillery' timestamp='1328591424' post='1707686']
Without having any manual on how to use it, I would think you first stab the blade into the can edge  then with a backward and forward movement, using the


little knob in the middle of the blade as a fulcrum on the topside of the can , gradually work your way around until open. Slow for sure but better than


having to chew metal.




Exactly as DAVID says. The only thing I  would add is that the can opening blade is exactly that - a blade, and the need to keep it's cutting edges sharp is often overlooked. It has two cutting edges for both left & right handed use and both these edges would be well maintained in their day as the better the edge, the easier they will slice through the tin.

Dave Upton

[CGM]

I remember this way of opening tins as a child, using a kitchen tool with a wooden handle. You had to be very strong to make the original hole and then use it - and the hacked edges of the lid and the inside of the tin were lethal.

There is an interesting article on the history of tin openers, which starts with this rueful reflection Most of us take this useful invention for granted now, but it would have been helpful if the tin-opener had been invented at the same time as the tin.

See here.

[tootrock]

If you search for a thread on the Forum entitled "Bully Beef and Biscuits", there is a lot of information on tins and tin openers in the trenches.

Martin

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning,

There was a piece on tins/tin-opening on last week's programme (first in a series of three):

http://1914-1918.inv...1

[centurion]

The stud should rest on the rim of the can as you work your way round. As cans have changed over the years (thinned metal for example and less sturdy) these do not work as well today.

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

Thanks very much for your responses.

Thanks for the link SteveMarsdin, but I can not access the programme because I am not in the UK

Tootrock, thanks for the thread.  Had already read it.  Interesting but didn't answer my question.

CGM,  interesting article but again it did not answer my question.

Well, I guess that the next time my wife wants a can opened I will follow rgartillery's suggestion and hack my way around the tin.

I will try and get some images and will post them in the forum if anyone is interested.


Dutchy

[DavidB]

Dutchy,

           From memory, with a bit of practice manual can openers could make a fairly clean cut around the top. In practical terms if a guy was hungry it

didn't matter too much what the can looked like after opening, the ability to access contents was the aim.

[T8HANTS]

According to a Belgian friend of mine tins are frequently found that have been opened by stabbing on the side and cutting the top and rim clean off.  It does work I've tried it.

G

[chrislock]

I have also come across rusted tin cans such as mentioned in the above post!

[Siege Gunner]

T8HANTS, on 09 February 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

According to a Belgian friend of mine tins are frequently found that have been opened by stabbing on the side and cutting the top and rim clean off.  It does work I've tried it.

It certainly works (and many modern can openers work on that principle), but presumably it would only be done with tins that were not wanted for re-use as containers  —  as removing the rim makes the walls 'wobbly' and the top edge sharp.

[ScorpioUnbound]

What ho Dutchy.



Look out for 'Bullets, Boots and Bandages' on any Australian channel that shows predominantly BBC material (BBC Australia?)  for a history of military logistics from Imperial Rome to date.  The second episode (tonight, BBC4, 9 pip-emma) considers moving a large body of troops to the battle front.


Cheer ho



John.

[Dutchy357]

ScorpioUnbound, on 09 February 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

What ho Dutchy.

Look out for 'Bullets, Boots and Bandages' on any Australian channel that shows predominantly BBC material (BBC Australia?)  for a history of military logistics from Imperial Rome to date.  The second episode (tonight, BBC4, 9 pip-emma) considers moving a large body of troops to the battle front.

Cheer ho


John.

Thanks for that!!

I certainly will.  We do have the ABC here which carries a lot of BBC programmes.  That is until they become popular and then the Commercial Channels nick them from them.

I have checked among the programme guides for the Free to Air channels and there is no mention of it yet.  It will surely turn up in the next couple of years, probably hidden among the Antiques Road Show, Bargain Hunt and Dr Who repeats somewhere!!.

Dutchy

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

I have answered the question.!!

The tin opener on the WW1 clasp knives works by stabbing the tins with it.

It does not lever or work its way around the rim.  It simply can not.  The stud has no purchase against the rim to allow this.  

It works simply by putting the point close to the rim and then driving it in to the lid.  It is then removed and postioned on the lid again, just far enough away from the previous hole to allow the blade to just join up with the previous hole when it is pushed down.  And so on and so on!!

This would be quite slow but at least gets the tin open.

The purpose of the stud appears to be to stop the blade going any deeper and to enable the user to deploy the tin opener blade in the first place.

This might explain some of the damage seen on the scales at the other end (ie missing shackles, chipped and broken scales).  Theses knives have simply been struck by something to drive the tin opener in to the tin can, hence the damage.  It has been noted by Centurion that tin cans were probably a lot tougher back then.


Regards Dutchy

[Peter Doyle]

I've used one, and it certainly can work by pressing down on the knife so that the stud acts as a fulcrum, as discussed above. It's all about perfecting the action - but what ever works. I'm sure the average soldier did the same
Peter

[Chief_Chum]

"It does not lever or work its way around the rim. It simply can not. The stud has no purchase against the rim to allow this."

Hi Dutchy,

It certainly does work. On Khaki Chums' Tours we must have opened hundreds of tins with Great War clasp knives, using the pin as the fulcrum.

You punch the point of the blade through the lid of the can, next to the rim. Push it in until the fulcrum pin is touching the rim and pivot the knive up and down as you turn the can anti-clockwise. It cuts through the lid very quickly, leaving a jagged lid wihich, once the tin is empty, you push back inside the tin.

They don't leave a neat cut but, from many of the original rusty tins I have seen, that's the way they were intended to be used.

Trying to punch a row of continuous holes would be much slower and increases the chance of you puncturing your hand. The fulcrum was there for a reason and it's not decoration!

Cheers,

Taff

[auchonvillerssomme]

The cans weren't a lot thicker than they today, and the remains you find haven't been 'butchered'.

[GRANVILLE]

This is why I posted earlier about the two cutting edges of the opener should have a decent edge maintained, so as to ease the blade through the tin as it pivots on the stud. The keener the edges on this blade, the cleaner their cutting action. The other thing is to make sure the blade makes its entry into the tin and the stud rests on the lip at a right angle to the tin. Its in this position that the maximum effort is exerted by the stud acting as a fulcrum.

Dave Upton

[pioneercorps]

Hi All

My Mother used sort of same principle, back in the fifties to open cans, it was not part of a knife, made of all metal with handle, you stabbed it into the top of the can, and the levered around the rim, as far as I can remember it worked great.

Regards.
Gerwyn

[Suentimb]

I think this is the one refered to above ...

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2ebb6e0b83

[pioneercorps]

Suentimb, on 13 February 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I think this is the one refered to above ...

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2ebb6e0b83

Hi. You got it .

[TRAJAN]

Suentimb, on 13 February 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2ebb6e0b83

Blimey, that takes me back a bit... !!!

Trajan

[Dutchy357]

Hi Guys

OK, I got it to work.  But gee whiz, you have to really put some weight on to the can opener so that the stud does not slip.  Slow way to get at your tucker.  I guess it gets better with practice!

Thanks for the input.

Dutchy

[auchonvillerssomme]

TRAJAN, on 14 February 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Blimey, that takes me back a bit... !!!

Trajan

It takes me about 20 feet to the kitchen  

Someone once said that the best piece of military equipment to come out of the US Army and transfer to the UK was the little can opener, brilliant piece of kit.