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Posted 11 February 2012 - 03:54 PM
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:07 PM
F_20LG.jpg 99.06KB 3 downloadsDave,
I thought you might like a picture of the Henry Farman F20 (shorthorn) and if you click on the link you will find a complete description of the aeroplane from the war factory. Rgds Graham
Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:12 PM
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:07 PM
The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing) J M Bruce lists all the squadrons equipped with the Henry Farman F20 - No 7 is not amongst them. Training squadrons at Upavon that did were nos 2,3,4,6,8,9,10,19,24 and 27. It also lists all those equipped with the Maurice Farman Mf 11 shorthorn No7 reserve squadron is amongst the training squadrons that is (and also had MF 7 Longhorns)
The problem is that according to "RAF Squadrons" by Wing Commander C.G. Jefford No7 Squadron were never equipped with any SHORTHORN aircraft, they did however have Henry Farman F20 aircraft, which is very similar in appearance.
The picture I posted earlier is of the Henry Farman F20 . aircraft of the type used by No 7 squadron.
the complete list of aircraft used by 7 Squadron upto 1919 is :-
on Formation on 1 may 1914 Longhorn, BE8, Tabloid, Henry Farman F20, Morane H, Bleriot XI, Avro Type E, Vickers FB 'gun carrier', RE5, Voisin LA, Bristol Scout, BE2c,Morane LA, BE2d, BE2e, BE2f, BE2g, RE8.
I have attached a picture of the Farman Longhorn MF7 for the complete picture. farman_mf-7.jpg 24.38KB 1 downloads
Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:12 PM
I think there's some confusion between 7 Squadron and 7 Reserve Squadron, both of which had Netheravon as a base, although 7 Squadron was operational in France at the time of Whiteman's accident.
7 RESERVE AEROPLANE/RESERVE/TRAINING SQUADRON RFC/RAF
Formed in 4th Wing at Netheravon 28.7.1915. Designated as an Elementary Reserve Squadron and establishment at 23.12.1916 set at 18 MF. Function changed late 1917 to become a TS for BF pilots and re-equipped with BE2e, RE8 and F2B. To Witney and 21st Wing 30.4.1918. Disbanded into 33 TDS at Witney 15.8.1918.
Airco DH6 A9688.
Avro 504 784.
Avro 504A/J 4028, 4745.
AW FK2 5328, 5330, 5334.
Bristol F2B B873, B8930.
Curtiss JN3 5636, 5910.
Martinsyde S.1 5449.
MF Se.7 358, 499, 549, 546, 4019, 6708, 6711.
MF Se.11 7371, 7372, A2193, A2462, A7002, A7054, A7055, A7062, B1953, B1986, B1994, B4743.
RAF BE2c 1681, 1795.
RAF BE2e B6176.
RAF BE8a 2138, 2150, 2151, 2152, 2160.
RAF RE5 2457.
RAF RE8 A4500, A4502, A4504.
Sopwith Camel C108.
Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:19 PM
Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:00 PM
that is terrific, thank you.
We plan to visit Whiteman's grave on a forthcoming cemetery tour and this will be a grand illustration to display to the attendees.
Looks like a Bristol (British & Colonial Aeroplane Company) structure in the background.
Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:18 PM
Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:00 AM
Posted 26 February 2012 - 11:21 AM
Mick, thanks for the details of 7TS. What was your reference? I tend to use Jeff Jefford's books for (regular - if that is the term) Squadrons. I never did purchase Jack Bruce's 'The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing)' - was it from that?
Shirley - of course we shall be delighted to leave a floral tribute when we visit this summer. You will be pleased to know that the grave is in very good order and not derelict as some are. I found a very detailed account of his schooling at www.trove.nla.gov.au - but of course, if you work at his school, you have got all that at your fingertips. Silly me! I will PM you.
Cheers to all
Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:21 PM
I take it you do no believe the information pubilished in the RAF Squadrons book and I quote again "a comprehensive record of the movement and equipment of ALL RAF squadrons and their antecedents since 1912" by Jefford MBE RAF when he clearly states Henry Farman F20 aircraft being used by 7 squadron. He does not include any "shorthorn" aircraft as being in service with 7 squadron, although as stated in my earlier post they did use "longhorn" aircraft.Perhaps The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps is mistaken who knows, certainly not me thats for sure, perhaps a third tome can corrobate wih either of the above, or perhaps the squadron history if someone has access to it.
The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing) does not contain lists of types by unit. What is does for every aircraft described is list all units that used the type and in what theatre together with the range of serial numbers (including renumberings) assigned to the type. It is very thorough (for example it provides the individual serial numbers of Henry Farman F20s equipping those squadrons that did have them in 1914) and makes it very easy to check if a particular squadron used a particular type - even if only briefly. Neither no 7 squadron nor reserve squadron 7 are shown as using the Henry Farman F20. Indeed checking all the 4 types of Farman used by the RFC neither of these units used any type of Henry Farman nor did they use the Graham White 'copy' of the Henry Farman. However No 7 squadron does appear to have had a Maurice Farman MF7 Longhorn when first formed. I imagine that is the source of Jefford's error.
In any case it seems clear that your man was in a Maurice Farman MF11 Shorthorn when killed. The Henry Farman F20 was never referred to as a Shorthorn.
Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:12 PM
Thanks Dave, it is good to know his grave is being looked after.
I understand there is a good conversation happening around the aircraft and squadrons, hope you don't mind me adding a few other l details I have in some notes
He was obviously quite a character. Letters of his survive in the School Archives. The School magazine 'The Swan' December 1916 reports the news of his death:
"The news that Harold Ernest Whitemand had been killed as a result of an aeroplane accident in England came as a great shock to all. Whiteman joined the school in 1908 ....
he became the Rhodes Scholar for this State in 1915. He remained with us until the time came for him to proceed to Oxford and report there, and he attached himself to Exeter College, before joining the Inns of Court training corps. In March he received his commission, in a Hants regiment, later being transferred to the 4th Hants, and was under orders to proceed to Fance at the end of July when this was cancelled and the regiment was ordered to proceed to India. Whiteman, who had all the time felt that he was not having the same risks as others of his school-fellows, was bitterly disappointed that he was destined for garisson duty in India and obtained a transfer to the Royal Flying Corps. In the flying school near Reading he obtained a 'very good', and in his last letter tells some of his experiences and the risks involved in training for flying. Old boys in England saw Whiteman at the beginning of October, and we heard on October 23rd that he had been killed. Almost the same day a donation of 2 pounds was received from him for the Athletic Sports Funds, but the committee felt that it would be a pity to apply this money to ordinary sports prizes, and decided to use it for placing an enlarged portrait of Lieut. Whiteman in the Library.
May God grant to all the faithful, rest and peace".
I laughed at a comment of his in a letter when he had been promoted to 2nd Lieutenant with the 2nd Battalion of the 8th Hampshire Regiment with a rise of 10 shillings per day. In May he was transferred to Newtown, on the Isle of Wight, to do musketry shooting and bombing. He claimed his success at throwing bombs was 'due, no doubt, to the fact that I was a fast bowler in cricket!'. He also found being commanded to grow a moustache frustrating 'it's a deuced nuisance as you know. I hate all idea of moustaches. However, it has to be done. I am jolly glad the photo has been taken before the order came out'.
Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:21 PM
Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:27 PM