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Unknown German Cloth Insignia


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#1 leanes-trench

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:51 PM

Greetings, all. Can anybody tell me what the collar insignia and patches on this man mean? Nothing at all is written on the back of the photo.


Many thanks,


PatAttached File  308b.jpg   65.83KB   0 downloadsAttached File  308b.jpg   65.83KB   0 downloads

#2 trenchtrotter

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:57 PM

What makes you say he is german. Does not look German uniform to me!

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#3 Glenn J

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:05 PM

The collar badge appears to be that of the East Prussian Freikorps unit Jägerkorps Gieseler. The two cloth stripes are the badses of rank of a Sergeant or Fähnrich of the immediate post war transitional army (Friedensheer).

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#4 Tom W.

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:45 PM

Definitely postwar. Here's a flamethrower operator with the same rank badges.

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#5 TRAJAN

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

... What makes you say he is german.


That was my first thought also, but then I saw the medal ribbon in the breastpocket - and went on the discover the rest of the replies!

Trajan

#6 ph0ebus

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:02 AM

I have learned that when I cannot figure out a German photo, it is probably Freikorps. :)

Daniel

#7 leanes-trench

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:06 AM

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. I really do.


Pat

#8 bob lembke

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:33 AM

I have learned that when I cannot figure out a German photo, it is probably Freikorps. :)

Daniel


I think that there were about 2500 different Freikorps, so there was a lot of scope for variability.

Bob Lembke

#9 Tom W.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:51 AM

I have learned that when I cannot figure out a German photo, it is probably Freikorps. :)

The Bluse with upper pockets is a transitional uniform. There were new regulations for the peacetime army (Friedensheer) set down January 19, 1919, which defined the rank stripes, and then on May 5, 1919, came the regulations for the Reichswehr.

The 1919 Reichswehr tunics were supposed to have exposed buttons instead of the fly front, and narrow corded shoulder straps instead of the wide, pointed wartime straps. Then in 1920 came the wide shoulder straps with rounded ends. There were endless combinations of all of the above. Pat's photo shows a 1919 transitional tunic with wartime straps.

Here's a wartime 1915 Bluse with narrow 1919 shoulder cords and a 1919 Reichswehr tunic with narrow shoulder cords.

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#10 Tom W.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:54 AM

A 1919 transitional peacetime tunic with rounded 1920 Reichswehr shoulder straps, and a 1921 Reichwehr tunic with rounded shoulder straps.

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#11 ph0ebus

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:17 AM

The Freikorps era is very interesting stuff, and something that was totally unknown to me prior to joining the GWF. Tom, all, your contributions to these threads are greatly appreciated. The photos are outstanding!

-Daniel

#12 TRAJAN

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:30 AM

Just out of interest, what is the medal ribbon being worn in the breast pocket by the man in the OP (and also in another one later by TomW)?

Trajan

#13 Tom W.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:04 AM

The Freikorps era is very interesting stuff, and something that was totally unknown to me prior to joining the GWF. Tom, all, your contributions to these threads are greatly appreciated. The photos are outstanding!

Thanks, Daniel.

Here's another anomaly. Bavarian Vizefeldwebel (three peacetime-army stripes on the arm) wearing the 1919 transitional blouse with unidentified collar patches and rounded shoulder straps with numerals, which weren't introduced until 1920. However, the postcard is dated October of 1919.

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#14 Tom W.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:21 AM

Just out of interest, what is the medal ribbon being worn in the breast pocket by the man in the OP (and also in another one later by TomW)?

I can't tell you what mine are, but the top image shows the ribbon of an EK II.

Gefreiter
of Infantry Regiment 19, July of 1920. He wears the M.1919 tunic that featured green cuffs with two buttons arranged vertically.

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#15 Tom W.

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

Vizefeldwebel, wearing the three chevrons mandated by the regulations of May 5, 1919, photographed in July of 1920. He should have an oval Armspiegel on both sleeves to denote his regiment, like the previous soldier, but he doesn't.

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