18 replies to this topic

[Pellwood]

I am interested in finding out the history of the 10th Battallion Hampshire Regiment in the Salonika/Balkans. I currently have the war diary pages for the Battalion from the begining of October 1915 to the end of January 1915. The diary entries are facinating and I hope to add more to my collection soon. In the meantime I was wondering if anyone on the forum has information on this topic that they would be willing to share.

Any information or advice on reseaching this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Jon

[alan657]

l have the diary for the 10th for 1918, which dates are you interested in?

Alan

[Pellwood]

alan657, on 24 February 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

l have the diary for the 10th for 1918, which dates are you interested in?

Alan

Thanks for your reply Alan. Although I am interested in all to do with the 10th; my main interest is the period up to when my Grandfather was discharged which was 16/03/1918.

Best regards,

Jon

[BillyS]

Pellwood, on 24 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I am interested in finding out the history of the 10th Battallion Hampshire Regiment in the Salonika/Balkans. I currently have the war diary pages for the Battalion from the begining of October 1915 to the end of January 1915. The diary entries are facinating and I hope to add more to my collection soon. In the meantime I was wondering if anyone on the forum has information on this topic that they would be willing to share.

Any information or advice on reseaching this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Jon

Hello John

Iam trying to find information about my Grandfather who was killed December 1915 he was what i believe were called K1 volunteers and went to Ireland then back to England before taking part in the Gallipoli landings and from there to Salonika from the very little info i have the battalion i believe were in Serbia or the borders there when he was killed. his name is on the Dorian memorial to those with no known graves as i have no relatives to ask as after WW1 a lot of the family split up and my late father did not know very much as he was only a year old at the time so any information by yourself or any other members would be welcome also i believe a lot of the records for the hampshires and the 10th Irish division were stored at Kew and were damaged and destroyed in the Blitz  Regards BillyS.

[kenf48]

BillyS, on 06 April 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

I am trying to find information about my Grandfather who was killed December 1915...

If you post his name someone may be able to help you.

In the meantime you may find the advice on researching a soldier on the parent site the Long Long Trail of interest.
http://www.1914-1918...dad/grandad.htm

[AndyR]

Hi Billy
December 1915 and 10th Hants sounds like Kosturino? There are a few threads if you search for Kosturino.
I think 10th Hants were 29th Brigade and so would be ANZAC rather than Suvla at Gallipoli.
"Orange, Green and Khaki: Story of the Irish Regiments in the Great War, 1914-18" by Tom Johnstone is good.
You haven't given your grandfather's name?
Good luck with your search!
Andy

[BillyS]

AndyR, on 06 April 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Hi Billy
December 1915 and 10th Hants sounds like Kosturino? There are a few threads if you search for Kosturino.
I think 10th Hants were 29th Brigade and so would be ANZAC rather than Suvla at Gallipoli.
"Orange, Green and Khaki: Story of the Irish Regiments in the Great War, 1914-18" by Tom Johnstone is good.
You haven't given your grandfather's name?
Good luck with your search!
Andy

Hi Andy my Grandfathers name was Albert Stevens i have found him on the Commonwealth War Graves site, also to help me in my family research they give the names of my Grandmother and his Father and Mother which will help me in my

family research project which i have started now i have retired. The book by Tom Johnstone sounds interesting i will check that out at the moment being a greenhorn on computors it takes me a while to find my way around thank you for the help

  Regards Billy

[kenf48]

Welcome to the Forum.
Private 15813 Albert Stevens 10th Bn Hampshire Regt. enlisted at Winchester and was killed in action on 7th December 1915.  He was born in Compton Hants and his residence is given as Crawley. [Soldiers Died in Great War - SDGW]

He was entitled to the 14-15 Star; British War Medal and Victory Medal.
According to his medal index card he entered a theatre of war 2{b} [Gallipoli] on 3rd October 1915.  

I think this date may be an error as the Battalion landed at Salonika on 6th October 1915.  Having said that I know from personal experience, and have commented previously on the forum, the dates for entered theatre on the mic for Gallipolli are all over the place.
The Division withdrew from Gallipoli on the 29th September and was evacuated to Mudros from where they embarked to Salonika.  The Bn landed at Gallipoli (as noted above at ANZAC Cove)  on the 6th August. http://www.1914-1918.net/hants.htm

There is a further link on that page to the 10th Irish Division which gives the Order of Battle and main engagements.

As in your original post his service record has not survived, or to be more accurate is not available on the two major online sources.
See also http://www.1914-1918.net/records.html

[AndyR]

Billy

Extracts of the story of the Battle of Kosturino on the 7th December from 'Orange, Green and Khaki':

"Six Bulgarian regiments or eighteen battalions were now directed against the three battalions of 30 Brigade, the main weight falling on the Rangers and Hampshires.

All morning the battle raged on the right and centre. Every assault was repulsed with rapid fire. Every man who could hold a rifle was in the line.
At 14:00, the enemy attacked from a strong position 100 yards from the front of the Rangers and remaining Hampshires. Bulgarian masses streamed down the ‘Hill of Howth’ under cover of machine-gun and artillery fire.

The end came for the Connaught Rangers at 14:30 when Bulgarian masses poured forward, disregarding their losses. As they closed, the Rangers rose from their trenches, emptied their magazines into the enemy and closed with the bayonet in a desperate encounter. Against overwhelming numbers, there could be only one result. The enemy in overpowering numbers and admirable fierce courage surged into the two centre companies.

The remnants of B, C and D Companies retired. Part of A Company … was outflanked, but gallantly held on to its position for a further hour until it and the Hampshire company withdrew to Crete Simonet and fought with 30 Brigade …

Of the 1209 casualties [British losses in Serbia], just over half were suffered by the 5/Connaught Rangers and 10/Hampshires."

From Jermey Stanley's 'Ireland's Forgotten 10th':

General Sarrail [the French commander in chief in the Salonica theatre] said “The rearguard fighting of the Irish in the Serbian mountains was one of the most striking feats of arms in the whole war. Against ten times their number, they were instrumental in saving the British and French armies”.

King Ferdinand of Bulgaria said “Those gallant Irishmen maintained their position to the last and held up the advance of my army”.


Some previous threads that may be of interest
http://1914-1918.inv...1
http://1914-1918.inv...1
http://1914-1918.inv...1

Andy

[AndyR]

If 3rd Oct is right then this might suggest you grandfather was among the many reinforcements added to 10th Div that week to replace their heavy Gallipoli losses - but if K1 and trained in Ireland is right then this might suggest the date is wrong?

I pointed to 'Orange, Green and Khaki' as it covers the raising and trainign of the Div and Gallipoli as well as Salonika, but if Salonika/Serbia is the period of inteerst then 'Under the Devil's Eye' (Alan Wakefield & Simon Moody) may be your better bet.

Jon may be able to add more to the story of 7th Dec as I think he has the 10th Hants War Diary for that period.

You may have noticed in one of the old threads I pointed at that the IWM photo Q 62966 (http://www.iwm.org.u...bject/205088298 ) may well show the 10th Hants in the trenches at Kosturino (near T junction of road from Memesli to Kosturino and the road to ormanli) that they were to defend a few days later on the 7th Dec

I should also have pointed to Rockdoc's thread (http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=166554) which gives a very inteersting pictorial description of his trip last year.

Andy

[BillyS]

kenf48, on 06 April 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Welcome to the Forum.
Private 15813 Albert Stevens 10th Bn Hampshire Regt. enlisted at Winchester and was killed in action on 7th December 1915.  He was born in Compton Hants and his residence is given as Crawley. [Soldiers Died in Great War - SDGW]

He was entitled to the 14-15 Star; British War Medal and Victory Medal.
According to his medal index card he entered a theatre of war 2{b} [Gallipoli] on 3rd October 1915.  

I think this date may be an error as the Battalion landed at Salonika on 6th October 1915.  Having said that I know from personal experience, and have commented previously on the forum, the dates for entered theatre on the mic for Gallipolli are all over the place.
The Division withdrew from Gallipoli on the 29th September and was evacuated to Mudros from where they embarked to Salonika.  The Bn landed at Gallipoli (as noted above at ANZAC Cove)  on the 6th August. http://www.1914-1918.net/hants.htm

There is a further link on that page to the 10th Irish Division which gives the Order of Battle and main engagements.

As in your original post his service record has not survived, or to be more accurate is not available on the two major online sources.
See also http://www.1914-1918.net/records.html

Hello Kenf48

many thanks for the information you have given me, i was surprised to find he was born in compton as he is listed on the commonwealth war graves as being born in Crawley Hants. i have discovered he is on the Crawley War Memorial .This information makes it easier for me to carry on with the family history project after Easter now i know is birthplace. Many Thanks again Best wishes BillyS.

[BillyS]

AndyR, on 07 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

If 3rd Oct is right then this might suggest you grandfather was among the many reinforcements added to 10th Div that week to replace their heavy Gallipoli losses - but if K1 and trained in Ireland is right then this might suggest the date is wrong?

I pointed to 'Orange, Green and Khaki' as it covers the raising and trainign of the Div and Gallipoli as well as Salonika, but if Salonika/Serbia is the period of inteerst then 'Under the Devil's Eye' (Alan Wakefield & Simon Moody) may be your better bet.

Jon may be able to add more to the story of 7th Dec as I think he has the 10th Hants War Diary for that period.

You may have noticed in one of the old threads I pointed at that the IWM photo Q 62966 (http://www.iwm.org.u...bject/205088298 ) may well show the 10th Hants in the trenches at Kosturino (near T junction of road from Memesli to Kosturino and the road to ormanli) that they were to defend a few days later on the 7th Dec

I should also have pointed to Rockdoc's thread (http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=166554) which gives a very inteersting pictorial description of his trip last year.

Andy

Hi AndyR
Thank you for the information you have given me, I am started to get hooked on this subject beyond just finding out my Grandfathers part in it so it seems i have a full time project going now.  Many Thanks for your help. Best Wishes BillyS.

[kenf48]

BillyS, on 09 April 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Hello Kenf48

many thanks for the information you have given me, i was surprised to find he was born in compton as he is listed on the commonwealth war graves as being born in Crawley Hants. i have discovered he is on the Crawley War Memorial .This information makes it easier for me to carry on with the family history project after Easter now i know is birthplace. Many Thanks again Best wishes BillyS.

Billy

A note of caution SDGW (especially on Ancestry) is not always accurate as the birthplace and enlistment location can be transposed, however in this case  both the 1891  and 1901 Census show his birthplace as Compton.  The (additional)  information on the CWGC would have been supplied by his next of kin, probably his widow.

The reason I thought the 'entered theatre date' might be a mistake is that in your original post you said he 'took part in the Gallipolli landings'.   This would not have been possible if he went to Mudros as a reinforcement on the 3rd October as the remnants of the original Bn had been evacuated to there a few days before.  I think Mudros (on Lemnos) would have counted as part of the Gallipoli campaign as part of the 'theatre' (it was about 50km away) in much the same way as on the Western Front 'entered theatre' usually dates from landing at Boulogne and proceeding to a base depot.  If accurate it would mean it was unlikely he would have seen the landing beaches or took part in any action in the Dardanelles.

Ken

[BillyS]

kenf48, on 09 April 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Billy

A note of caution SDGW (especially on Ancestry) is not always accurate as the birthplace and enlistment location can be transposed, however in this case  both the 1891  and 1901 Census show his birthplace as Compton.  The (additional)  information on the CWGC would have been supplied by his next of kin, probably his widow.

The reason I thought the 'entered theatre date' might be a mistake is that in your original post you said he 'took part in the Gallipolli landings'.   This would not have been possible if he went to Mudros as a reinforcement on the 3rd October as the remnants of the original Bn had been evacuated to there a few days before.  I think Mudros (on Lemnos) would have counted as part of the Gallipoli campaign as part of the 'theatre' (it was about 50km away) in much the same way as on the Western Front 'entered theatre' usually dates from landing at Boulogne and proceeding to a base depot.  If accurate it would mean it was unlikely he would have seen the landing beaches or took part in any action in the Dardanelles.

Ken

Hi Ken

many thanks for the information i am afraid a lot of these dates are confusing me, i have just this afternoon had the doiran memorial register given to me to look at by one of my sisters who is also doing the family history thing which i did not know until today. There is a brief passage at the start which says on 5th october the 10th irish division and the French 156th division both from Gallipoli landed at Salonika so i guess my Grandfather would have been amongst them my sister also seems to think he enlisted at beginning of the war she has a photo of him in uniform with my Grandmother and there children including my father who was a baby in arms having been born in july with the very small amount of knowledge i have i assumed he took part in the gallipoli landings and then on to Salonika from there it seems i have a lot of detective work to do its a shame i didnt do this project years ago when the older generation were still around.Well thanks very much for your help Ken the information about the census makes things easier for me Many Thanks Ken regards Billy.

[kenf48]

It's not an exact science but the 10th Bn has 329 casualties listed for the period June - December 1915
of these only one other man 15826 Walter Pinnels has the first three numbers 158***  i.e. the same as your grandfather.  Pte Pinnels mic shows exactly the same information as Pte Stevens i.e. 2[b] 3/10/1915
This does seem to add credence to the suggestion he was a replacement and the date is correct.  No other soldiers with the 158*** series are among the casualties on Gallipoli, however there are a few in 1915 in the 2nd Bn.

I found a soldier with the number 12720 who enlisted on the 9th September 1914 so I think you're correct in thinking he enlisted in 1914 (a bit more work around the  number could firm it up).

Without a service record we can only speculate (guess!) but I'd suggest he enlisted around late 1914, and as an older married man (as was Pte Pinnels although his wife had died according to the CWGC) he did not go out with the first drafts.

Good luck with your search!

Ken

[SALONIKA]

Check this link. This is the area where your grandfather have fought and died.

http://www.salonikab...?ref_id=3&lang=

[butler]

kenf48, on 09 April 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

It's not an exact science but the 10th Bn has 329 casualties listed for the period June - December 1915
of these only one other man 15826 Walter Pinnels has the first three numbers 158***  i.e. the same as your grandfather.  Pte Pinnels mic shows exactly the same information as Pte Stevens i.e. 2[b] 3/10/1915
This does seem to add credence to the suggestion he was a replacement and the date is correct.  No other soldiers with the 158*** series are among the casualties on Gallipoli, however there are a few in 1915 in the 2nd Bn.

I found a soldier with the number 12720 who enlisted on the 9th September 1914 so I think you're correct in thinking he enlisted in 1914 (a bit more work around the  number could firm it up).

Without a service record we can only speculate (guess!) but I'd suggest he enlisted around late 1914, and as an older married man (as was Pte Pinnels although his wife had died according to the CWGC) he did not go out with the first drafts.

Good luck with your search!

Ken

Pte 15813 Albert Stevens shown to (2B) Balkans 3.10.15, also killed in action 7.12.15,

The book 'The Royal Hampshire Regiment 1914-1918' mentions 10 bn receiving 520 men on 4th October 1915 'mainly from the Bedfordshire and East Surrey' These seem to have been given Hampshire Regiment Service numbers from about 19700 to 20165

[awakefield]

Hi Billy

Just to let you know that I'm recently returned from another of my trips out the the Macedonia battlefields, which included Kosturino.This year the tour party made it onto the summit of Rocky Peak. This gave a fantastic view across the whole battlefield. It's a very interesting battlefield and includes great hospitality from our friends in Memesli and Tatarli/Calikli.
If you ever fancy venturing out that way let me know and I'll add you to the email list of those interested in future tours.

ALAN

[sotonmate]

There is also another book in Southampton City Library Special Collections specifically Diaries written by several Officers of the 10 and 12 Hampshires,entitled "Some Account of the 10th and 12th Battalions Hampshire Regiment 1914-1918" collated by Major WS Cowland,Winchester 1930.

Sotonmate