9 replies to this topic

[stonysleep]

As part of researching my great grandfather, Captain HA Brett, part of his obituary (he died after both world wars in 1959) says that after the first world war he was part of a british force that was sent to russia.
I do not know whether he was discharged from his regiment where he was attached to the Worcesters in gallipoli or if it was a different one.

I'm assuming the expedition he was involved in was the allied intervention in the russian civil war
The wikipedia entry mentions these regiments from the British army as being involved:

Quote

British Army (6th Yorkshire Regiment, 2/10th Royal Scots, some Royal Dublin Fusiliers 52 Bn Manchester Regt., others?)

But it is probably incomplete and lacks detail.

So I think firstly, I'm after a list of regiments which were involved
Next, looking for the detail of the British Force's involvement in the expedition, as having read the wikipedia entry i'm still not entirely clear what the expedition was all about as it seems there were numerous purposes.
And then finally, if anyone has any pointers on how I would best find out whether he did indeed serve in this expedition, which regiment, and where he would've served.
This last part is not as easy as the world wars as it wasn't a war in itself and imagine there weren't medals awarded for this expedition in itself.

Anyway, hope someone here can help out

Many Thanks

[Staffsyeoman]

Seek out "Churchill's Crusade" by Clifford Kinvig - this has comprehensive details. Certainly in North Russia the 45th and 46th Battalions of the Royal Fusiliers are missing from your list, as are several units of the Machine Gun Corps and of the Hampshire Regiment. Some of these units were specially raised using volunteers.

[JesseM88]

stonysleep, on 26 February 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Next, looking for the detail of the British Force's involvement in the expedition, as having read the wikipedia entry i'm still not entirely clear what the expedition was all about as it seems there were numerous purposes.

This is a tricky topic to study. I've read extensively on it and I'm still not entirely sure of a lot of things. There was a lot of Intelligence operations going on which range from mild to pretty shady. I think there is somewhat of a consensus that the British were there originally in some sort of attempt to reopen the Eastern Front to divert German troops, although this obviously would not apply to the time period you're looking at. The Bolsheviks were not particularly popular abroad, and the British/French had a lot of financial interests in Russia that the Bolsheviks were looking to wipe their hands of. I've read reports of American troops who were in Northern Russia and had little idea as to why they were still their in 1919. Can't remember where I read them though.


Michael Occleshaw's 2006 work, Dances In Deep Shadows, is an interesting work which offers a lot of insight as to what the Allied Intervention was all about. http://www.amazon.co...88&sr=8-1-spell

Good luck with your research.

[apple]

JesseM88, on 26 February 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I think there is somewhat of a consensus that the British were there originally in some sort of attempt to reopen the Eastern Front to divert German troops, although this obviously would not apply to the time period you're looking at.

Good one sentence summing up, IMO.

Although, Stonysleep didn't actually mention any dates. After Nov. 1918 The Entente wasn't so concerned with the Germans, but they still had some serious issues with Germany's involvement in Eastern Europe.

Originally, originally (if that's a phrase) the British arrived in Murmansk and Archangel to prevent the Germans getting access to all the supplies that had been shipped into Northern Russia from the West. This wasn't just rifles and guns, but there was copper and alsorts of raw materials stockpiled up there too. Was vague concerns about Germans establishing U-boat bases up there and permanently preventing The Entente access to Russia through the Arctic.

Overtime the Soviets became the enemy.

[izzy]

In the book Liverpool Pals by Graham Maddox there is a mention of the Kings Liverpool Regiment serving in Russia.

[Kate Wills]

The 13th Yorkshires (Green Howards) also served there, sailing from Dundee and arriving November 1918.

[Dave Swarbrick]

I did a little research in this area some years ago whilst researching my grandfather's war. My understanding is that the British forces comprised of two groups: Syren and Elope. I did some digging at the National Archives, if you are in or near London then a visit may be a good idea.

Starting place:

http://www.nationala...1.y=6&image1=GO
and
http://www.nationala...1.y=5&image1=GO

I did - eventually - find some relevant bits and pieces that helped my understanding, but it was a bit of a hard slog. Worth doing though.

Dave Swarbrick

[Staffsyeoman]

Syren and Elope were in North Russia only. There is also the Army of the Black Sea and forces in Vladivostok.

[stonysleep]

Many thanks for all the replies - apologies for not looking back at this sooner.
It's reassuring to know that it isn't just me who has found the topic "tricky to study" as JesseM88 puts it.
I've been doing some more work and found quite a good site which lists all military operations 1919-1939 and the units involved:


British Military Operations 1919-1939

It is quite extensive, and lists many units involved in the North Russia, South Russia & Black Sea, and Siberia operations


I've also collated the books mentioned in the main topic on the allied intervention which should make for a fair amount of reading though the Churchill's Crusade and the Michael Occlelshaw book sounds like i may have to add them to the list.


I'll have to make another trip down to Kew to look at the documents Dave Swarbrick highlighted. Think it might be a fairly heavy one given none of them have been indexed so not got any hints on where to start.

As far as dates go i don't have much to go on for my great grandfather and am still piecing together his gallipoli service and hope to work out how it linked in with this expedition.
Some of the information I've read seems to suggest that some of the forces were sent from the middle east through what is now Azerbaijan to protect the oil fields so it is not impossible that it was through that that he entered Russia. I purchased the 2 volumes of fitz and stacke's worcestershire regiments in the great war and been going through the eastern front section of that to try and glean any kind of lead on how he might have got there.

So, overall still much to uncover, and again thanks for the help.

[Chris_Baker]

Better late than never! I have a page on the British forces deployed in North Russia: http://www.1914-1918...northrussia.htm