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James Robert White


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#1 MichaelBully

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:35 PM

From reading the Sussex Daily News 25th May 1916- Anybody else heard of this case? Regards, Michael Bully

Sentence passed on Son of
Late Sir Geo White

A Socialist DSO


The case against James Robert White, son of the late Sir George White, charged under the Defence of the Realm Act with spreading reports and making statements likely to cause disaffection, was resumed at Aberdale (sic) yesterday morning.
Lady White and the defendant's wife were present.
Mr. Ivor Parry prosecuting, said the prisoner had had a distinguished career in the Army, and gained the D.S.O. in the Boer War. He had since adopted extreme Socialistic views, and has servied in the Irish Citiizens and National Volunteers. he quarrelled with Sir Roger Casement as to the best means of obtaining Home Rule for Ireland. he also quarelled with James Larkin and in 1914 did ambulance work in France. He returned and selected an Admiralty steam coalfield as the scene to renew his Socialistic activities. He visited Cardiff Rhondda Valley and Aberdare, and the allegation against him was that he came with the avowed object of inducing the Wlesh miners to strike. He told a Mr. Tyssal Davies that he had come to Wales to explain the Sinn Fein movement and organise a strike to oblige the Government not to execute James Connolly. In reply to Mr. Davies's observation that he ought to be fighting for his country, prisoner said that he would rather be put against the wall and riddled with bullets, and added that he wanted Germany to win the war. He said that when his late father was Governor of Gibralter, he was present at an interview with the Kaiser, who said he could not understand the English and had been unable to obtain English friendship. When arrested prisoner tore up a document which, when patched together, was found to include the following;

"To rob you of your right over your own poor body is the work of tyrants"
"To rob your sovereign power over your own will is the work of devils."
"Awake, Brothers, before your liberty is dead."
"Arm yourselves agsint your real enemies."
"Say to the tyrants and their agents 'The first man that lays his hand on me is against my will dies."

Copies of strong resolutions intended to be submitted at meetings of workmen were also found, and there was the manuscript of a speech in which he gave his lifelong history, expressed hatred for the Army, and urged his hearers not to enlist. Concluding, Mr. Parry said that although the prisoner was of honourable birth, and had served the country with distinction, the existing circumstances, instad of palliating , only aggravated the offence.
Mr. Hunter, for prisoner, said he denied that he wanted Germany to win the war. Whilst Casement went to Germany, White did not, although given the same opportunity. Prisoner had always shown great sympathy for the downtrodden, and he came to Wales because the Welts being Celts, he thought he could arouse their sympathy more quickly than in colder England.
Lady White and defendant's wife were called and said defendant was not disloyal, but felt keenly on the Irish situation.
The Stipenduary decided to convict.
Accused was sentenced to three months' in the second division on two charges under the Act- spreading reports and making statements likely to cause dissafection- the sentences to run concurrently.

#2 THE SHINY SEVENTH

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:35 PM

From reading the Sussex Daily News 25th May 1916- Anybody else heard of this case? Regards, Michael Bully



No, but very interesting, thanks for posting, regards Sean

#3 MichaelBully

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

Indeed, had never heard of this chap before. Websearches have not yielded any information, and so far my Great War books do not seem to have any mention of him. Regards ,Michael Bully

No, but very interesting, thanks for posting, regards Sean



#4 centurion

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:13 PM

Indeed, had never heard of this chap before. Websearches have not yielded any information, and so far my Great War books do not seem to have any mention of him. Regards ,Michael Bully



Look for Jack White http://en.wikipedia....(trade_unionist)

#5 MichaelBully

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:27 PM

Excellent, much appreciated. Thanks Centurion. Turns out that James Robert White is not so obscure after all.

Look for Jack White http://en.wikipedia....(trade_unionist)



#6 Magnumbellum

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:02 PM

From reading the Sussex Daily News 25th May 1916- Anybody else heard of this case? Regards, Michael Bully

Sentence passed on Son of
Late Sir Geo White

A Socialist DSA


The case against James Robert White, son of the late Sir George White, charged under the Defence of the Realm Act with spreading reports and making statements likely to cause disaffection, was resumed at Aberdale yesterday morning.
Lady White and the defendant's wife were present.
Mr. Ivor Parry prosecuting, said the prisoner had had a distinguished career in the Army, and gained the D.S.O. in the Boer War. He had since adopted extreme Socialistic views, and has servied in the Irish Citiizens and National Volunteers. he quarrelled with Sir Roger Casement as to the best means of obtaining Home Rule for Ireland. he also quarelled with James Larkin and in 1914 did ambulance work in France. He returned and selected an Admiralty steam coalfield as the scene to renew his Socialistic activities. He visited Cardiff Rhondda Valley and Aberdare, and the allegation against him was that he came with the avowed object of inducing the Wlesh miners to strike. He told a Mr. Tyssal Davies that he had come to Wales to explain the Sinn Fein movement and organise a strike to oblige the Government not to execute James Connolly. In reply to Mr. Davies's observation that he ought to be fighting for his country, prisoner said that he would rather be put against the wall and riddled with bullets, and added that he wanted Germany to win the war. He said that when his late father was Governor of Gibralter, he was present at an interview with the Kaiser, who said he could not understand the English and had been unable to obtain English friendship. When arrested prisoner tore up a document which, when patched together, was found to include the following;

"To rob you of your right over your own poor body is the work of tyrants"
"To rob your sovereign power over your own will is the work of devils."
"Awake, Brothers, before your liberty is dead."
"Arm yourselves agsint your real enemies."
"Say to the tyrants and their agents 'The first man that lays his hand on me is against my will dies."

Copies of strong resolutions intended to be submitted at meetings of workmen were also found, and there was the manuscript of a speech in which he gave his lifelong history, expressed hatred for the Army, and urged his hearers not to enlist. Concluding, Mr. Parry said that although the prisoner was of honourable birth, and had served the country with distinction, the existing circumstances, instad of palliating , only aggravated the offence.
Mr. Hunter, for prisoner, said he denied that he wanted Germany to win the war. Whilst Casement went to Germany, White did not, although given the same opportunity. Prisoner had always shown great sympathy for the downtrodden, and he came to Wales because the Welts being Celts, he thought he could arouse their sympathy more quickly than in colder England.
Lady White and defendant's wife were called and said defendant was not disloyal, but felt keenly on the Irish situation.
The Stipenduary decided to convict.
Accused was sentenced to three months' in the second division on two charges under the Act- spreading reports and making statements likely to cause dissafection- the sentences to run concurrently.


I note that according to the transcript White was said to hold the "DSA", whatever that is, and that he was tried at "Aberdale", wherever that is. Do these infelicities appear in the original?, in which case they should be noted by the conventional (sic). Or if not, could they please be corrected to avoid confusing future readers.

On the prosecutor's suggestion, derived from a witness statement, that White "wanted Germany to win the war", it was and remains a common fallacy that anyone opposing the belligerence of one party to a conflict necessarily wants the other side to win, and prosecutions against war opponents have been notoriously bolstered by encouraging witnesses to make such statements.

#7 MichaelBully

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:01 PM

Hello MB, DSA -should of course be DSO -can correct! Looked at my print out of the article place concerned does read as 'Aberdale' .Not sure where that is meant to be? Regards.

I note that according to the transcript White was said to hold the "DSA", whatever that is, and that he was tried at "Aberdale", wherever that is. Do these infelicities appear in the original?, in which case they should be noted by the conventional (sic). Or if not, could they please be corrected to avoid confusing future readers.

On the prosecutor's suggestion, derived from a witness statement, that White "wanted Germany to win the war", it was and remains a common fallacy that anyone opposing the belligerence of one party to a conflict necessarily wants the other side to win, and prosecutions against war opponents have been notoriously bolstered by encouraging witnesses to make such statements.



#8 Mk VII

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:27 PM

Aberdare, presumably, mentioned earlier in the piece.

#9 MichaelBully

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:29 PM

Yes, should have spotted that. Regards Michael Bully

Aberdare, presumably, mentioned earlier in the piece.





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