35 replies to this topic

[NickC]

npm, on 04 March 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Brilliant documentary.  Does anyone have any further info on the black horse team which led the unknown soldier carriage?

Mentioned a bit about the black horse team here in an earlier post, they served 14-18 as a team with F Battery RHA, they saw action through the Mons retreat, Marne, Aisne, Neuve Chapelle, Ypres, Somme and the retreat of March 1918.

Regards

Nick

[squirrel]

Evening Standard 4th April 1941
Horse the Germans could not kill!
Lord Mottistone’s famous old war horse, Warrior, which he and Sir John French (Lord Ypres) rode during the war, has died at Mottistone Manor, Isle of Wight, at the age of 32.

No mention of him being put down.

[GRANVILLE]

Only got to see it yesterday. Very impressed. Also impressed with the quality of the Camelot advert (WW2 veteran reminiscing) during the screening?? Not the sort of thing you might expect to get a mention, however the forums Chief Chum was it's advisor etc. Well done TG.

Dave Upton

[NigelS]

There was no attempt at disguising the fact that Warrior had been put down from The Times 5th April, 1941:

MY HORSE WARRIOR
Death of a well Known Charger

Warrior, Lord Mottistone's old charger, has died at Mottistone Manor, in the Isle of Wight. His age was 32. The severe weather of the last two winters had affected his health, and Lord Mottistone regretfully decided to have the horse painlessly destroyed...

With the history between the owner and horse, I don't believe this action would have been undertaken for any other reason than the relief of Warrior's suffering.

NigelS

[Staffsyeoman]

I too was surprised that there was virtually no mention of Monchy, given its consequences for the cavalry employed. Smiler Marshall ended up in the Machine Gun Corps (Cavalry).   Who were the mounted re-enactors?

The Camelot ad? Well intended, well meant and amazingly staged but for me faintly alarming as it almost behooves an element of mental cruelty to invoke such painful images (to admittedly - I hope - a fictional case) in the veteran.

[pmaasz]

According to Brough Scott's biography of Seely (Galloper Jack) the euthanasing of Warrior was because it was considered un-supportive of the war effort at a time of food shortages to keep feeding a very old horse with oats.  His health would also, I'm sure and as has been mentioned, have been a contributing factor.

[rjaydee]

EPILOGUE by Brough Scott page 167 Warrior The Amazing Story of a Real WAR HORSE."Warrior continued in his much loved way until the fates caught up with him in spring of 1941. The old horse was now 33 -- and needed a daily supply of corn, which created some mutterings as human rationing bit. As Lord Lt of Hampshire Jack Seely bowed to the inevitable but stipulated that the end should come when he was away as he could not bear to be there for the closing"

[Seasider70]

Very good piece, but left confused. Having looked into Remount depots recently (Purton had one)i had a nagging thought in my head after hearing that only 60,000 horses returned to the UK. Did i hear that piece right, please see below from the excellent WEB site regarding swaythling.

From August 1914, the vast Swaythling Remount Depot was constructed at North Stoneham Park and Bassett, on the edge of Southampton, to collect, sort, and supply horses and mules for war service. It was one of the four principal remount depots in England; the others were at Romsey (also for Southampton), Shirehampton (for Avonmouth), and Ormskirk (for Liverpool).

The Swaythling Remount Depot was the centre from which nearly all horses and mules from England were given a 'final overhauling' and dispatched across the Channel to France. At the end of the war, the Depot also received the returning animals.Up until 11 December 1918, the Depot processed 390,741 animals, of which 386,194 passed out.


Regards

Bob

[GRANVILLE]

Seasider70, on 08 March 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Very good piece, but left confused. Having looked into Remount depots recently (Purton had one)i had a nagging thought in my head after hearing that only 60,000 horses returned to the UK. Did i hear that piece right, please see below from the excellent WEB site regarding swaythling.

From August 1914, the vast Swaythling Remount Depot was constructed at North Stoneham Park and Bassett, on the edge of Southampton, to collect, sort, and supply horses and mules for war service. It was one of the four principal remount depots in England; the others were at Romsey (also for Southampton), Shirehampton (for Avonmouth), and Ormskirk (for Liverpool).

The Swaythling Remount Depot was the centre from which nearly all horses and mules from England were given a 'final overhauling' and dispatched across the Channel to France. At the end of the war, the Depot also received the returning animals.Up until 11 December 1918, the Depot processed 390,741 animals, of which 386,194 passed out.


Regards

Bob

Bob.
The way I read the above, the figures mentioned only refer to animals taken in for assessment prior to being shipped to France - those deemed fit enough to 'pass out'. Although the piece makes it clear the same depot handled returning animals, the figures quoted don't (to me) relate to how many that amounted to.

Dave Upton

[Seasider70]

Dave

Reading the piece again i can see where i may have gone wrong.

Regards

Bob

[Gibbo]

NickC, on 06 March 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Mentioned a bit about the black horse team here in an earlier post, they served 14-18 as a team with F Battery RHA, they saw action through the Mons retreat, Marne, Aisne, Neuve Chapelle, Ypres, Somme and the retreat of March 1918.

Regards

Nick

This is the opening paragraph of 'Britain's Military Use of Horses 1914-1918', an article by John Singleton in vol. 193, issue 1 (1993) of the academic journal Past and Present.

Quote

In that understandably neglected volume, Animal War Heroes, written in 1933, the story is told of seven gun horses attached to F Battery, Royal Horse Artillery. They were shipped to France in August 1914 and took part in the retreat from Mons, the battles of First and Second Ypres, Festubert, Aubers Ridge, Vimy Ridge, the Somme, Hill 70 and Cambrai, as well as the desperate campaigns of 1918, collecting a number of wounds along the way. On 8 August 1918 they further distinguished themselves by rescuing some stranded guns during a German attack. F Battery's horses survived to retire to England where they entertained friends by balancing sugar lumps on their front hoofs and tossing them into their mouths.