Hi all
Has anybody any information on the 40th Div attack on Bourdon Wood, refference, map, general info, who took part.
Thanks
Dave
Remembered Today:
0
40th Div 23/111917 bourdon wood
Started by
odin432
, Mar 14 2012 06:43 PM
15 replies to this topic
#1
odin432
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:43 PM
#2
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:30 PM
#3
odin432
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:43 PM
Cheers Chris
I knew I spelt it wrong as soon as I posted It
I knew I spelt it wrong as soon as I posted It
#4
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:57 PM
The page cited by Chris above gives an excellent overview of the Battle.
I have a copy of the Divisional History and Bourlon Wood takes two chapters and over 60 pages and states the objective was 'to gain a smart local success at a point where the enemy did not expect an attack'. [The account is perhaps a little more 'enthusiastic' than that given by Chris].
It includes an aerial photo and sketch map but can't get to a scanner at the moment. The oblique aerial photo is from the IWM archive but I can't find it though I did find these sketches http://www.iwm.org.u...em/object/23259
and this aerial photo http://www.iwm.org.u... France"&query=
Bourlon Wood is in the top right corner (but this is not the one in the book)
In the meantime if you have any specific query happy to do a look-up for you.
Ken
I have a copy of the Divisional History and Bourlon Wood takes two chapters and over 60 pages and states the objective was 'to gain a smart local success at a point where the enemy did not expect an attack'. [The account is perhaps a little more 'enthusiastic' than that given by Chris].
It includes an aerial photo and sketch map but can't get to a scanner at the moment. The oblique aerial photo is from the IWM archive but I can't find it though I did find these sketches http://www.iwm.org.u...em/object/23259
and this aerial photo http://www.iwm.org.u... France"&query=
Bourlon Wood is in the top right corner (but this is not the one in the book)
In the meantime if you have any specific query happy to do a look-up for you.
Ken
#5
odin432
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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:31 PM
Thank you Ken
It was my Great Grandfather who was killed in this Action serving with the Royal Welsh Fuiliers 19th Bantam Battailon, as an ex-soldier, If I can see a map then I can understand what the battle and objectives were.
Dave
It was my Great Grandfather who was killed in this Action serving with the Royal Welsh Fuiliers 19th Bantam Battailon, as an ex-soldier, If I can see a map then I can understand what the battle and objectives were.
Dave
#6
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:42 PM
Knew Steve would be along soon - nice site, Steve is that a revision?
Back to the plot. The 40th Division was training west of Arras, and on the the 16th November they left for Beaumetz, arriving on the 22nd; 119th Brigade was at Doignies. A planning meeting for the attack on Bourlon Wood was held at 1.30pm that same day at DHQ where it was decided the attack would be mounted with 121st Brigade on the left and 119th on the right with the 120th in reserve.
The Division moved forward with HQ and the Reserve at Havrincourt and the attacking formations HQ at Graincourt, from there they moved into the line, relieving 185th Brigade of 62nd Division.
Bourlon Wood_sm.jpg 80.28K
6 downloads
The photograph shows the position in front of the wood which rises about 150m over the plain. The block of buildings in the right foreground is Anneux Chapel on the map. There is a chalk pit or quarry a white blob behind the avenue of trees, and to the left of the quarry a sunken road leading to Bourlon village which can be seen on the other side of the wood.
The inverted Y junction, described as 'a rivet point in a pair of scissors' [officially 'the crossroads at E.24.c'] was the point where 121st Brigade met 119th Brigade.
The first part of the119th Brigade's line from the rivet, or crossroads to Anneux Chapel was held by the 12th SWB and the remainder to the right, from the Chapel to Anneux village by the 19th RWF. The 17th and 18th 'Welch' were in reserve.
The map (which is too big to upload) shows the inter-brigade boundary as agreed by DHQ (i.e. Anneux Chapel) whereas the the Brigade commanders agreed it should be the crossroads.
Day 1
23rd November 1917
Zero hour was 1030 a.m. on 23rd November. The plan called for a short artillery barrage then, at 1050 a.m. the twelve tanks allotted to the Brigade would pass through the infantry positions who would follow them up 100 to 200 yards behind. The two attacking Battalions would advance on a two company front in depth with the support Battalions following up to reinforce or throw out defensive flanks. The infantry were told the tanks were 'a luxury' and could not be relied upon!
The main objective was not the wood or village but the railway line to the the north of the map.
The wood was mainly fir trees, with some oaks and an undergrowth of hazel making movement quite difficult. By 11a.m. the two attacking battalions of the 119th had reached the edge of the wood and captured a number of prisoners and machine guns. Although in contact with 121st to the west progress through the undergrowth was slow and the enemy began shelling the Southern edge of the wood preventing the reserve Bns from reinforcing the units fighting their way through the undergrowth in the wood where the fight developed into a classic infantry close quarter attack.
The SWB on the left were struggling to make progress against heavy machine gun fire and suffered heavy losses; one Company reached the village around 1.30pm but could go no further as another Company had been cut off and another, reinforced by one company of the 17th Welch was pinned down by machine gun fire. All officers in this Battalion were casualties.
The 19th RWF although suffering heavy losses pushed on through the wood and turned the German flank causing them to retreat. The Bn was able to consolidate a position on the Northern side of the ridge and establish posts to the East of Bourlon village. At about 4 pm (or slightly earlier at 3.10pm) the enemy launched a strong counter attack on these positions which caused them to retreat to the edge of the wood, the attack was beaten off with the help of reinforcements from the 18th RWF although their CO was killed leading his men forward. By 5p.m. as light was beginning to fail both Battalions were dug in on the northern edge of the ridge. During the evening night they were reinforced by various units, both from 119th Brigade as well as the 14th Argylls (my interest) from the 120th as well as a unit of dismounted cavalry from the 15th Hussars.
Day 2
24th November 1917
Through the night the Germans continued to shell the wood, including gas shells. At 1 a.m. after an increased bombardment they attacked the 119th Brigade positions but were beaten off. Things settled down for the night, while at DHQ it was decided that in the morning the 120th Brigade would attack Bourlon village. However the 14th Argylls had already been committed, so the job fell to the HLI and the Suffolks, in the event there were delays in mounting this attack and it did not begin until the afternoon which allowed the Germans to concentrate on the Welsh.
At 8a.m. there was another German attack on 119th Brigade. The enemy was allowed to advance within 150 yards and then cut down by machine gun and rifle fire. Their attack failed. There then followed a relatively 'quiet' period while the enemy prepared for a counter attack in force. This attack was launched at 1p.m., the right side of the British flank was pushed in although the machine gunners kept up fire on the flank until one by one they were cut off and the crews who all remained at their posts were killed or captured. Eventually elements of the RWF, Argylls and Hussars counter attacked and drove the Germans back regaining their earlier positions on the ridge.
Fighting continued throughout the rest of the afternoon and for most of this time there was no communication with DHQ [with serious consequences for the HLI attacking the village as noted in Steve's account]. At 5.30p.m. the Brigade Intelligence Major reported the 119th Bde would not be able to withstand another determined German attack. The men were exhausted and their numbers much reduced, the C.O. requested reinforcements.
Later that evening the Welsh were reinforced by elements of 120th Brigade who were not committed to the attack on Bourlon village, and eventually by Companies from the Guards Division on their right.
Day 3
25th November 1917
Once again the Germans attacked 119th Brigade positions on the ridge early in the morning. Fortunately two companies of Scots Guards, and later the remainder of their Battalion had joined the Welsh and together they fought off the attack, the Germans once again suffering heavy loss.
Later that morning the 4th Grenadier Guards joined them in the wood and this tipped the balance in the wood in 40th Division's favour and although fighting continued for the rest of the day at 5 p.m. the 119th Brigade handed over the wood to units of the 62nd Division and withdrew back to their start line, the manoeuvre being completed without further loss at '11.16 p.m.'
Although the losses sustained in Bourlon Wood probably influenced the decision to disband the 18th SWB and 19th RWF in the reorganisation in February 1918, the bitter fighting in the wood stands alongside Mametz (where I also had relatives) for determination and Welsh fighting spirit. The oak leaf and acorn were added to the Divisional badge in memory of the fact the Division captured and held the wood, passing it on to their relief intact. Though as Chris's piece recalls these gains were wiped out within weeks.
This is a much shortened version but hopefully gives a flavour, bear in mind it was November, the wood was very muddy and there were not tracks or 'rides' within the wood.
Ken
PM me if you want the map and a higher res photo (having some probs with my flickr account)
Edited for corrections at Post 12
Back to the plot. The 40th Division was training west of Arras, and on the the 16th November they left for Beaumetz, arriving on the 22nd; 119th Brigade was at Doignies. A planning meeting for the attack on Bourlon Wood was held at 1.30pm that same day at DHQ where it was decided the attack would be mounted with 121st Brigade on the left and 119th on the right with the 120th in reserve.
The Division moved forward with HQ and the Reserve at Havrincourt and the attacking formations HQ at Graincourt, from there they moved into the line, relieving 185th Brigade of 62nd Division.
Bourlon Wood_sm.jpg 80.28K
6 downloadsThe photograph shows the position in front of the wood which rises about 150m over the plain. The block of buildings in the right foreground is Anneux Chapel on the map. There is a chalk pit or quarry a white blob behind the avenue of trees, and to the left of the quarry a sunken road leading to Bourlon village which can be seen on the other side of the wood.
The inverted Y junction, described as 'a rivet point in a pair of scissors' [officially 'the crossroads at E.24.c'] was the point where 121st Brigade met 119th Brigade.
The first part of the119th Brigade's line from the rivet, or crossroads to Anneux Chapel was held by the 12th SWB and the remainder to the right, from the Chapel to Anneux village by the 19th RWF. The 17th and 18th 'Welch' were in reserve.
The map (which is too big to upload) shows the inter-brigade boundary as agreed by DHQ (i.e. Anneux Chapel) whereas the the Brigade commanders agreed it should be the crossroads.
Day 1
23rd November 1917
Zero hour was 1030 a.m. on 23rd November. The plan called for a short artillery barrage then, at 1050 a.m. the twelve tanks allotted to the Brigade would pass through the infantry positions who would follow them up 100 to 200 yards behind. The two attacking Battalions would advance on a two company front in depth with the support Battalions following up to reinforce or throw out defensive flanks. The infantry were told the tanks were 'a luxury' and could not be relied upon!
The main objective was not the wood or village but the railway line to the the north of the map.
The wood was mainly fir trees, with some oaks and an undergrowth of hazel making movement quite difficult. By 11a.m. the two attacking battalions of the 119th had reached the edge of the wood and captured a number of prisoners and machine guns. Although in contact with 121st to the west progress through the undergrowth was slow and the enemy began shelling the Southern edge of the wood preventing the reserve Bns from reinforcing the units fighting their way through the undergrowth in the wood where the fight developed into a classic infantry close quarter attack.
The SWB on the left were struggling to make progress against heavy machine gun fire and suffered heavy losses; one Company reached the village around 1.30pm but could go no further as another Company had been cut off and another, reinforced by one company of the 17th Welch was pinned down by machine gun fire. All officers in this Battalion were casualties.
The 19th RWF although suffering heavy losses pushed on through the wood and turned the German flank causing them to retreat. The Bn was able to consolidate a position on the Northern side of the ridge and establish posts to the East of Bourlon village. At about 4 pm (or slightly earlier at 3.10pm) the enemy launched a strong counter attack on these positions which caused them to retreat to the edge of the wood, the attack was beaten off with the help of reinforcements from the 18th RWF although their CO was killed leading his men forward. By 5p.m. as light was beginning to fail both Battalions were dug in on the northern edge of the ridge. During the evening night they were reinforced by various units, both from 119th Brigade as well as the 14th Argylls (my interest) from the 120th as well as a unit of dismounted cavalry from the 15th Hussars.
Day 2
24th November 1917
Through the night the Germans continued to shell the wood, including gas shells. At 1 a.m. after an increased bombardment they attacked the 119th Brigade positions but were beaten off. Things settled down for the night, while at DHQ it was decided that in the morning the 120th Brigade would attack Bourlon village. However the 14th Argylls had already been committed, so the job fell to the HLI and the Suffolks, in the event there were delays in mounting this attack and it did not begin until the afternoon which allowed the Germans to concentrate on the Welsh.
At 8a.m. there was another German attack on 119th Brigade. The enemy was allowed to advance within 150 yards and then cut down by machine gun and rifle fire. Their attack failed. There then followed a relatively 'quiet' period while the enemy prepared for a counter attack in force. This attack was launched at 1p.m., the right side of the British flank was pushed in although the machine gunners kept up fire on the flank until one by one they were cut off and the crews who all remained at their posts were killed or captured. Eventually elements of the RWF, Argylls and Hussars counter attacked and drove the Germans back regaining their earlier positions on the ridge.
Fighting continued throughout the rest of the afternoon and for most of this time there was no communication with DHQ [with serious consequences for the HLI attacking the village as noted in Steve's account]. At 5.30p.m. the Brigade Intelligence Major reported the 119th Bde would not be able to withstand another determined German attack. The men were exhausted and their numbers much reduced, the C.O. requested reinforcements.
Later that evening the Welsh were reinforced by elements of 120th Brigade who were not committed to the attack on Bourlon village, and eventually by Companies from the Guards Division on their right.
Day 3
25th November 1917
Once again the Germans attacked 119th Brigade positions on the ridge early in the morning. Fortunately two companies of Scots Guards, and later the remainder of their Battalion had joined the Welsh and together they fought off the attack, the Germans once again suffering heavy loss.
Later that morning the 4th Grenadier Guards joined them in the wood and this tipped the balance in the wood in 40th Division's favour and although fighting continued for the rest of the day at 5 p.m. the 119th Brigade handed over the wood to units of the 62nd Division and withdrew back to their start line, the manoeuvre being completed without further loss at '11.16 p.m.'
Although the losses sustained in Bourlon Wood probably influenced the decision to disband the 18th SWB and 19th RWF in the reorganisation in February 1918, the bitter fighting in the wood stands alongside Mametz (where I also had relatives) for determination and Welsh fighting spirit. The oak leaf and acorn were added to the Divisional badge in memory of the fact the Division captured and held the wood, passing it on to their relief intact. Though as Chris's piece recalls these gains were wiped out within weeks.
This is a much shortened version but hopefully gives a flavour, bear in mind it was November, the wood was very muddy and there were not tracks or 'rides' within the wood.
Ken
PM me if you want the map and a higher res photo (having some probs with my flickr account)
Edited for corrections at Post 12
#8
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:57 PM
kenf48, on 15 March 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:
Knew Steve would be along soon - nice site, Steve is that a revision?
Hi Ken,
yep thought I'd give it a wash and brush up!!
Here's a map to go with the picture.....
Steve
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:28 PM
Thanks Steve, that's the one!
The one from the history is annotated but I'm still struggling with 'Flickr'
Ken
The one from the history is annotated but I'm still struggling with 'Flickr'
Ken
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:08 PM
Hi Dave,
If you drop me a pm with your email, I've got quite a bit on this action and in specific reference to the fighting of the 40th Div across the 2/3 days in the wood.
What was your Great-Grandfather's name, incidentally?
If you drop me a pm with your email, I've got quite a bit on this action and in specific reference to the fighting of the 40th Div across the 2/3 days in the wood.
What was your Great-Grandfather's name, incidentally?
#11
odin432
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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:00 PM
Thanks Troops
Great info, as I am trying to put together some sort of document for the Family so as they have an understanding of what G Grandad did in the Great War and Died for
Thanks
Dave
Great info, as I am trying to put together some sort of document for the Family so as they have an understanding of what G Grandad did in the Great War and Died for
Thanks
Dave
#12
LST_164
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:48 AM
Hi Ken,
I like the account you posted, but just want to point out that the action didn't involve the 18th RWF (a reserve formation in the UK) or the 18th SWBorderers (non-existent). I think you must mean the 12th SWB and/or 18th Welsh Regt. who were with 17th Welsh Regt. the other units comprising 119th Brigade.
The war diary of 17th Welsh Regt. is published online here: http://www.17thwelsh.ukf.net/
Other accounts of the Bourlon fighting can be accessed in:
Dudley Ward, Regimental Records of the Royal Welch Fusiliers Vol. III (N&MP reprint)
Frederick Ernest Whitton, History of the 40th Division (N&MP reprint)
Jack Horsfall & Nigel Cave, Bourlon Wood (2001, 2002 Battleground Europe Series)
William Moore, A Wood Called Bourlon: The Cover-up After Cambrai, 1917(1988)
Sidney Allinson, The Bantams: The Untold Story of WW1 (1981 & later)
Clive
I like the account you posted, but just want to point out that the action didn't involve the 18th RWF (a reserve formation in the UK) or the 18th SWBorderers (non-existent). I think you must mean the 12th SWB and/or 18th Welsh Regt. who were with 17th Welsh Regt. the other units comprising 119th Brigade.
The war diary of 17th Welsh Regt. is published online here: http://www.17thwelsh.ukf.net/
Other accounts of the Bourlon fighting can be accessed in:
Dudley Ward, Regimental Records of the Royal Welch Fusiliers Vol. III (N&MP reprint)
Frederick Ernest Whitton, History of the 40th Division (N&MP reprint)
Jack Horsfall & Nigel Cave, Bourlon Wood (2001, 2002 Battleground Europe Series)
William Moore, A Wood Called Bourlon: The Cover-up After Cambrai, 1917(1988)
Sidney Allinson, The Bantams: The Untold Story of WW1 (1981 & later)
Clive
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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:30 PM
Clive
You're quite right my mistake. I did get confused with 17/18/19 and yes it was the 12th SWB which was carelessness and not checking on my part..
As for the rest Lt Col Whitton did the old trick of (which really confuses us English) of calling all the Welsh Regiments Welch!
Thanks for the correction and the link to war diary
Ken
You're quite right my mistake. I did get confused with 17/18/19 and yes it was the 12th SWB which was carelessness and not checking on my part..
As for the rest Lt Col Whitton did the old trick of (which really confuses us English) of calling all the Welsh Regiments Welch!
Thanks for the correction and the link to war diary
Ken
#14
Tom Lang
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Posted 28 June 2012 - 05:20 PM
Gents,
I'm very interested in this 'action'.
My interest is in Capt William Alexander Gibb Stevenson, who took command of B Coy 14th Bn Highland Light Infantry on 28 Mar 1917.
This was just about 4 weeks before the attack on Villers-Plouich where my grandfather was killed on 24 Apr 1917.
After the withdrawal from Bourlon Village on 26th November 1917, and after contact had been lost with the 3 front Coys, the diary lists this officer as one of the 'Missing Officers'.
<from the Diary>
The Casualties for the month of November 1917 are listed as follows:
Casualties Off O.R.
17 426
Above includes killed, wounded & missing – Details so far as known:
Killed:- Lieut Col C W Battye D.S.O. (M. G. fire)
Wounded:- Major J H Foster (M. G. fire)
2 Lt H M Black (M. G. fire)
Missing:- Capt WAG Stevenson
Capt G C Smith
Lieut Haddock R
2 Lt A Watt
2 Lt E G B McIndoe
2 Lt Souden S
2 Lt J Beveridge
2 Lt H Hilton
2 Lt A R Sclanders
2 Lt D Thomson
2 Lt W B McGeorge
2 Lt H W M Thomas
2 Lt F R Ward
2 Lt F G McLeod
I know that this officer is reported as having later Died of Wounds in a German hospital on 20 Dec 1917.
Could you please send me a PM and I'll provide you with my email address.
I love to have any and all information you have leading up to, during and after the 'action' in Bourlon Wood, the village and the surrounding area.
Kindest Regards,
Tom Lang.
P.S. My reasons for my interest in this officer is that on the death of my grandfather on 24 Apr 1917, Capt Stevenson wrote a letter to my grandmother describing the circumstances of my grandfather's death. My family have possesion of this letter and it shows the compassion and quality of the character of this man. I am trying to build a 'dossier' of information about him, and his capture and death in German hands is a 'blank' spot right now.
<Here is a transcript of this letter>
I'm very interested in this 'action'.
My interest is in Capt William Alexander Gibb Stevenson, who took command of B Coy 14th Bn Highland Light Infantry on 28 Mar 1917.
This was just about 4 weeks before the attack on Villers-Plouich where my grandfather was killed on 24 Apr 1917.
After the withdrawal from Bourlon Village on 26th November 1917, and after contact had been lost with the 3 front Coys, the diary lists this officer as one of the 'Missing Officers'.
<from the Diary>
The Casualties for the month of November 1917 are listed as follows:
Casualties Off O.R.
17 426
Above includes killed, wounded & missing – Details so far as known:
Killed:- Lieut Col C W Battye D.S.O. (M. G. fire)
Wounded:- Major J H Foster (M. G. fire)
2 Lt H M Black (M. G. fire)
Missing:- Capt WAG Stevenson
Capt G C Smith
Lieut Haddock R
2 Lt A Watt
2 Lt E G B McIndoe
2 Lt Souden S
2 Lt J Beveridge
2 Lt H Hilton
2 Lt A R Sclanders
2 Lt D Thomson
2 Lt W B McGeorge
2 Lt H W M Thomas
2 Lt F R Ward
2 Lt F G McLeod
I know that this officer is reported as having later Died of Wounds in a German hospital on 20 Dec 1917.
Could you please send me a PM and I'll provide you with my email address.
I love to have any and all information you have leading up to, during and after the 'action' in Bourlon Wood, the village and the surrounding area.
Kindest Regards,
Tom Lang.
P.S. My reasons for my interest in this officer is that on the death of my grandfather on 24 Apr 1917, Capt Stevenson wrote a letter to my grandmother describing the circumstances of my grandfather's death. My family have possesion of this letter and it shows the compassion and quality of the character of this man. I am trying to build a 'dossier' of information about him, and his capture and death in German hands is a 'blank' spot right now.
<Here is a transcript of this letter>
France
11th May 1917
Dear Mrs. Lang,
I expect that you will have
received from the War Office news of your
husband’s death in action on the 24th
April last [No 37091 Pte Lang R.]
Please accept our very sincere sympathy
in your bereavement. I feel very
sorry that I have not been able to let
you know before now but have been
waiting for news confirming his death.
Your husband was
one of six orderlies who were asked
for from my company to act as
Brigade runners the night before the
attack took place & so far as I can
discover he was killed
outright by a shell first before our
first wave went forward.
Your husband was one of the last draft
which came to my company & always
did his work well. Unfortunately there
have been many changes in the Company
among the officers recently what with
some going off altogether, others going
on courses, so that your husband’s
platoon Commander has hardly had
time to make the acquaintance of the
new men.
This is a cruel War and daily all
the noblest and best are laying
down their lives in the cause of
freedom so there is consolation
to know that your husband died
a hero’s death at his post
doing his duty nobly to the last.
Should I have any
further word of your husband’s
place of burial which unfortunately
is unknown to us at present,
I shall let you know urgently,
Believe me.
Yours sincerely,
W.G Stevenson
Captain B coy 14th HLI
#15
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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:31 PM
I have uploaded the War Diary of 40 Division for November 1917 to flickr.
There are 72 pages of good stuff there
http://www.flickr.co...157630333197654
Hope you find it useful.
Ian
There are 72 pages of good stuff there
http://www.flickr.co...157630333197654
Hope you find it useful.
Ian
#16
Tom Lang
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Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:21 PM
Hello 'WalkEric',
Thanks for your quick reply and superb efforts. I have just downloaded them and I'm off for a good read.
"... 172 officers and 3191 rank and file..." - astonishing!
Kindest Regards,
Tom Lang.
"Lest We Forget"
Thanks for your quick reply and superb efforts. I have just downloaded them and I'm off for a good read.
"... 172 officers and 3191 rank and file..." - astonishing!
Kindest Regards,
Tom Lang.
"Lest We Forget"
