18 replies to this topic

[magscotabroad]

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here is an article that I found on the voix du nord, I have translated it very quickly and included the original picture for info.


hope it is of interest.
mags

An underground tunnelling  of the  Great War brought to light.

After the snowfall and the rains that followed,  the trenches of the Great War have reappeared in the Loos countryside. The hole that has formed is perhaps the entrance to a hootch (google translation for that), a temporary shelter that all the soldiers made on arrival  in a Front Line trench. It consisted of a staircase and a small room which could eight to twelve soldiers  and about three to four metres in depth.  Or it is often the hub of galleries  dug to a depth of nine to twelve metres  allowing troops to move around safely in order to reach the Front Line, sometimes only eighty metres from the enemy,  as was the case here.


In fact, the hole is located between the lines of the Canadian trenches of Ribbart, and of the German trenches of Pit 14bis.


Lost objects found.
200 metres from the spot,  the Durand group, an English association of research on the underground war, assisted by the Loos association on the traces of the Great War,  found the entrances to the Australian tunners of 1917 in November 2011.
The objects found in the tunnel,  (including a full bottle of beer coming from South Africa and intact) can be seen at the Alexandre Villdieu museum,


Jean Marie Allard has been drawing up  a plan of all the cavities for the past ten years. (172 in total)


This is the original posting with the contact details of the museum.
http://www.lavoixdun...se-au-jou.shtml

[roel22]

Thanks for posting, the tunnelers-story has always fascinated me.

Roel

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

roel22, on 14 March 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

The tunnelers-story has always fascinated me.

Roel

Me too, its their work that started my interest in the GW, thanks for posting mags, regards Sean

[magscotabroad]

hi, would you be interested in other stories covering tunnelling, I've had a look at the voix du nord site, and there are quite a few stories over the past year or two?
I'd be quite to do the same as I have done for this article.
mags

[DavidB]

If you manage to get hold of the book Çrumps and Camouflets' you will find a lot that pertains to the Australian tunnellers in the Loos area.

Not only that but the book is a really good read too.

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

magscotabroad, on 15 March 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

hi, would you be interested in other stories covering tunnelling, I've had a look at the voix du nord site, and there are quite a few stories over the past year or two?
I'd be quite to do the same as I have done for this article.
mags

Yes please thanks mags.

[magscotabroad]

Hi again, here's one I just found

photo an anAustralian tunneller found hanging on a fence.

dimanche 24.04.2011, 05:15 - La Voix du Nord



file:///C:\Users\Margaret\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.jpg

(LOOS ENGOHELLE)

Walkers werein for a surprise when using the green belt.

A photo washanging on a fence.

It is notevery day that you discover  it at thecorner of “beaux gardins” (French patois for garden, my comment Mags)  and the Chemin de Croisette.

It is evenless common when you know that is is one of an Australian soldier whofought  on this spot in 1917.

On Hill 70 in1917

The verybeautiful photo is that of soldier Leslie Milo Forsyth born in Australia in1888. A volunteer, he was assigned to the third tunneling company, in the minessection. His unit took part in the battle of mines (laying of mines making hugecraters). In the area of Fromelles, Laventie , Fauquissart, before arriving atthe famous Hill 70 in 1917.

Wounded by agas shell in 1918, and after intensive care treatment in the militaryhospitals, he went back to Australia. He married in 1920 and passed away in1966.

By chance,the group and the association Durand Loos in the footsteps of the Great Warwere themselves searching for the Australian tunnels in the same spot the daythe photo was left.

During theEuropean Heritage Days, the association will present the tragedy of twenty-oneAustralian tunnellers died that day by a German surprise attack on Hill 70. MaxGehlen’s watercolours will be discussed.

here is the original link

http://www.lavoixdun...ien-retro.shtml




Got this message, the wrong way round, so hope you enjoy this little article.

mags

[TonyE]

I do not think the entrance in the report is the same one the Durand checked last Novemeber, but this is an extract from our report on a similar dug-out entrance that appeared nearby at Loos whilst we were undertaking our search for the Australian subway.

With regard to the other French report, we did indeed find the subway but unfortunately the tunnel had collapsed a few metres in. We shall be attempting to access it from a different point later this year.

Regards
TonyE
Secretary, Durand Group

Attached Images

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[gilles]

Bonjour

Yes it is an other entrance .....not the entrance with the durant group

i came down this tunnel ( find bottle empty !!)

gilles

[clarke]

A very interesting find thanks for sharing.

Much can be said about a beer that has been left (unopened) behind by Australians.

[magscotabroad]

hi once again, here are a couple of articles I found concerning the same problem.

happy reading
mags


A fourth land subsidence at Annay sous Lens causes fear

See original document for photo.

There has been torrential rain in thepast few days. A weather remeniscent  of  last summer’s . On Friday, there was no doubtof the link in everyone’s minds, when a new land subsidence took place in Annaysous Lens, the fourth since July.

By GERALDINE CSIZMADIA

Le trou qui s'est formé vendredi matin au bord de la terrasse d'unehabitation de la

file:///C:/Users/Margaret/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

lens@info-artois.fr

From his first few words, the stress in Marc Geraldes voice could  be heard. In his garden of rue Matisse inAnnay sous Lens, the ground subsided brutally, forming  a gaping hole. It was Friday morning, his doghad just been in the garden for his needs, I opened the shutter to pick it up,when the subsidence occurred. There was a hole in front of my  kitchen French window, at the edge of a smallpatio, and near the neat  lawn, “Wemeasured the deepest part which was four metres. We could see that the earthhad disappeared in a sort of sap,   atthe bottom. Above it, could  be seen atank and a pipe in the hole. It’s the flow of rainwater, said the tenant, I wasafraid because I said to myself. “My wife, my daughter and myself, could havebeen  over the spot at the very momentwhen the land subsided, he added anxiously. On Friday morning, MarcGeraldes  warned the town, as well as hislandlord Pas de Calais habitat. Some representatives quickly came round, notablyto mark the perimetre using  constructiongrids.

The neighbour Mickael Heringuez took advantage of notifying  the presence of a crack on its façade. I haveonly been a tenant since December 2010.

When I arrived, there was only a small line, and after the excavation ofthe road which runs along the housing estate, it has spread and has gone  through the garage door. It must be said thatit was trembling. And in the garden, there was a hole on one spot, where thewater  stagnates when it rains a lot.These residents immediately made the connection  with other land subsidences in the commune.

Since July, a large hole has formed on the departmental road 917, anotherat the end of August  in the driveway ofa garage of a house in rue Clermont Ferrand, probably due to a war sap, andanother one on the first of September, in a garden in the Kennedy estate, nearrue Matisse, The war saps have already been identified by tttheee Office ofGeological and Mining Research (BRGM) at different spots in the commune.Pas-de-Calais Habitat has reacted very quickly on Friday by contacting a companyspecialized in geology. They will carry out a study of the underground fromnext week onwards. ‘We will examine the whole of the permietre, said LaurentDal who is responsible for the file for Pas De Calais Habitat. It is reassuring’Iunderstand that people are afraid, but I do no think that there is any risk forthe houses. We have carried out studies of the soil to know what type ofconstruction could be built there. We made the choice of semi deep foundations.The houses were finished and checked by an external studies office.  Having said that, it is well known that themining region was heavily worked during the First World War. This type ofproblem is highlighted when we have particular weather conditions  with abrupt changes.

http://www.lavoixdun..._un-quatrieme-a






Accueil » Edition Lens » Actualité Lens »

La série desaffaissements de terrain continue à Annay-sous-Lens

·        ACTUALITÉ LENS

Haut du formulaire

o   file:///C:/Users/Margaret/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Bas du formulaire

The series of land subsidences is continuing at Annay sous Lens.

mardi 20.12.2011, 05:18 - La Voix du Nord

Dimanche, la famille de Manuel a découvert un trou profond d'aumoins5mètres dans son jardin.

|  SINISTRE |



LHas the recent bad weather experienced in thedepartment been responsible for the series of land subsidences at Annay sousLens?

Two days after the discovery of a land subsidence in rue Matisse, there hasbeen another discovery in a garden rue Ramond.

On Sunday at about 11aln we realized that there was a five metre deep holeand about 1m50 wide, says Manuel the owner. It’s crazy, because only an hourbefore, my son was walking on the exact sport. Luckily, nobody was at the spotwhere the subsidence occurred.

The owner is responsible.

There are quite a few war saps at Annay sous Lens, continued Manuel. I’veeven been told that there are galleries, who can apparently be found beneath mygarden, which would go all the way to Vimy. The difference between the familywho live in Rue Matisse, and who rent their house from Pas de Calais habitat,who will be responsible for closing the hole, Manuel can only count on himselfor his insurance, which he will be contacting today. He, in effect, is theowner of the ground where the land subsided,, so it’s up to him to take thenecessary steps.

CLAIRE DE VREGILLE

Contacted by phone on the subject, the family living in rue Matisse, Pas deCalais, Habitat explained to us that a technical official had visited andreassured them that the foundations of the house were perfectly adapted to thesoil. A company specialized in carrying out soil surveys, would intervene toverify the exact  path of the sap andtherefore be able to suggest a treatment solution adapted to the situation.





Seeoriginal link for photo.



http://www.lavoixdun...-affaissements-

[Siege Gunner]

For interest, Mags, are you using a computer translation program and then lightly sub-editing the output?

Mick

[magscotabroad]

no i translate them myself, hope the version is good for you, I try and stay as faithfully to the text as possible

but I do sometimes use the google translater just to go a bit faster

[Siege Gunner]

Full credit to you for taking on substantial chunks of text, Mags.  It's far from perfect, as I'm sure you know, but it's a great deal better than raw machine-translation and Pals will rightly be very grateful for your efforts on their behalf.

Mick

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

Siege Gunner, on 27 March 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Full credit to you for taking on substantial chunks of text, Mags.  It's far from perfect, as I'm sure you know, but it's a great deal better than raw machine-translation and Pals will rightly be very grateful for your efforts on their behalf.

Mick

Here, here, thanks again mags

[old-ted]

Mags.

Thanks for your work on this. It's facinating. Well done, et bon courage'.

John

[magscotabroad]

here is another follow up to the story (no translator assistance this time)  but quite sad times for the families concerned, see the original article for the photo.
mags

  Edition Lens » Actualité Lens »

  In Annay, the holes are numbering seven, the work is late in starting.

  

    

Bas du formulaire

    samedi 17.03.2012, 05:20 - La Voix du Nord

  


  | land subsidences |

  It has been over eight months since the first land subsidence was caused by the presence of war saps in Annay. Since then, six others have appeared. Some people have carried out the work themselves, others are still waiting. And for some the waiting is costing them dear in money and worry.

    BY AUDREY HALFORD

  

  lens@info-artois.fr

  Gainsbourg's  song doesn’t make anybody in Annay laugh anymore. The holes, big and small, have become the nightmare of several Annaysiens since July. (read  the timeline opposite). And depending on the circumstances, the consequences are more or less serious.

  Some victims of this type of disaster have settled the problem quickly. Like Daniel Mattei, home owner, residence Kennedy. “I made some enquiries at the town hall, and they told me that as I was the owner, I had to find a solution myself, he explained. I filled the hole of 1.20m wide and 3-4 m deep, with a mixture of earth, clay and of pebbles. And as it hasn’t been recognized as a natural disaster, my insurance hasn’t refunded anything to me.” Rue Matisse, Marc Geraldes is very irritated. Since the subsidence in his garden on 16 December, he can no longer access it. Barriers are protecting the perimeter and the hole still hasn’t been filled in. it seems neverending to me, the good weather is arriving and we don’t have the right to go into the garden, he complains  I am going to request indemnities from Pas de Calais habitat for the damage caused to my garden. I had planted lots of things there, I had grown a lawn, there was a little fountain. There is nothing left there now. “The landlord who rents him the house asked him to be patient. The specialised  Studies Office  who carried out the surveys just after the disaster returned its full report last week. “The houses are not threatened by the war saps because they do not go under the buildings, assures Laurent Dal of Nord de Calais Habitat. We have reassured the tenants, there is no risk of any other subsidence. Now it is necessary to carry out work of consolidation  on outside work. And as there is no extreme urgency, we have launched a quotation. The winning company will be named in two months. The work should start at the end of May. Concerning the Dupas couple, they have been devastated. They had to leave the house that they had just bought rue Clermont-Ferrand. The hole in the alley had taken their car on the first September. After a few days spent in a hotel at their own charge, they were relodged in lens by Coopartois, their builder. They have taken responsibility for reaccommodating us, but not for all the numerous expenses incurred, claimed Thomas Dupas. I work in Harnes, my wife works in Roubaix and the childminder of our son in Annay. It’s not practical and it costs money. Moreover we are paying the insurance of the two houses, and the  subscriptions for water, gas, and electricity for the two equally; The couple would like to resell the house in Annay in order to buy another. But the one that is being proposed to them costs more. We are online for a legal action. With two other subsidences this month, the number rises to seven in the commune.

  We have not been able to contact the technicians of Coopartois yesterday.

this is the original link

http://www.lavoixdun...e-de-sept.shtml



  

    

[ianw]

Somehow comforting that the French have the same sort of buck-passing issues between insurers, councils etc as we do over here.

My mother-in-law's  house in Yorkshire was built on old coal mining excavations and enormous amounts of concrete were required to make the ground safe for building. Obviously the informal/unrecorded nature of the WW1 excavations makes this much more difficult and there is no equivalent of the National Coal Board's residual funds to pay for any work needed.

Full sympathy to those householders affected.

[gilles]

Bonjour

see page 10 to 15

article Loos Hill 70 underground Australia


http://www.ntwa.com....eb 2012_INT.pdf

gilles