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#1 von Smallhausen

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

Hello,
A catalogue of 1923 mentioned pipemusic written by Mc Killop ( or Mc Killap). Title is "Advancing on Wervicq". Now, Wervicq was liberated by the 30th Division, no Scottish units except for the 2/14th London Regiment ( London Scottish). So I was wondering if this pipemusic was written for or by this battalion/ regiment ?
Any additional information would be gratefully received.
With kind regards from Flanders,
Jef

#2 HERITAGE PLUS

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

Jef

Not an answer for you but here is the music:

http://www.ceolsean....8/Book08 16.pdf

Dave

#3 von Smallhausen

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:43 AM

Jef

Not an answer for you but here is the music:

http://www.ceolsean....Book08%2016.pdf

Dave



Thank you Dave, that's a nice begin.
Jef

#4 squirrel

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:22 PM

Hello,

The Pipe Majors of Scottish regiments traditionally write pipe tunes to commemorate their part in some battles as do some Irish regiment's Pipe Majors and/or Drum Majors. There is a pipe tune, The Battle of The Somme for instance, and I am sure that there would be others written for WW1 battles.

Perhaps Steven Broomfield might be able to find out if your tune was written by a member of the London Scottish.

#5 von Smallhausen

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:19 PM

Hello,

The Pipe Majors of Scottish regiments traditionally write pipe tunes to commemorate their part in some battles as do some Irish regiment's Pipe Majors and/or Drum Majors. There is a pipe tune, The Battle of The Somme for instance, and I am sure that there would be others written for WW1 battles.

Perhaps Steven Broomfield might be able to find out if your tune was written by a member of the London Scottish.


Thank you, Squirrel for this information. I will send a PM to Steven.
kind regards,
Jef

#6 Steven Broomfield

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

Jef - PM received.

I'm afraid I don't know the answer: the regimental history mentions Wervicq, but the 2 Battalion seem not to have assaulted that place, their advance on 14th october being on the road running between Wervicq and Mons, and only two mentions in the history seem to support the thought tht the LS weren't particularly involved with the place. Te 2nd Civil Service Rifles (2/15th London) were to the right of the LS, so

Also the name of the McKillop doesn't seem to appear in the index either, so I don't know.

However, I will give RHQ a call next week and see if there is any information which might help.

Another thought: the history of the Civil Service Rifles comments that the 14th Division were also in the area and effected a crossing of the Lys near Wervicq. Given that the 14th Div had the 14th Ardylls (42nd Brigade) and 10th HLI (43rd Brigade), is it possible one of these regiments produced this march?

#7 von Smallhausen

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:06 AM

Another thought: the history of the Civil Service Rifles comments that the 14th Division were also in the area and effected a crossing of the Lys near Wervicq. Given that the 14th Div had the 14th Ardylls (42nd Brigade) and 10th HLI (43rd Brigade), is it possible one of these regiments produced this march?


Thank you Steven for your answer. In fact, your other thought might be a possibility. Again new possibilities to think about. :blink:
kind regards,
Jef

#8 Tom A McCluskey

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Jef,

It might be an Irish pipe tune.

Aye,

Tom McC

#9 4thGordons

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

Off the wall thought:

It is possible that the reference is to a much earlier war?

I think the Battle of Tourcoing, 17-18 May 1794 was fought in the vicinity of Wervicq and I belive the Brigade of Guards (inc the Scots Guards) were involved in this battle so I thought it might be possible this is the reference?

However it does not appear until Vol 7 of Logans Collection of Highland Pipe Music (see HERE) along with lots of other WWI tunes so that would suggest it is a Great War reference.

Has anyone checked Seton and Grant (Pipes of War) for McKillop this might reveal regiment - I can look when I get home.
Chris

#10 von Smallhausen

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:26 PM

Hello Tom and Chris,
Thank you for your answers, gentlemen. It's always possible it's an Irish tune (Squirel wil be glad if it is :lol:, aren't you Tony)... we will wait and see.
Chris, I would be grateful if you could look in your list, maybe it contains valuable information.
Kind regards and thanks once more,
Jef

#11 BigRab

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:31 PM

Jef, I am going into the Piping Centre in Glasgow tomorrow night. I will see if anybody has any more information on the tune and its composer.

You could try this Bagpipe Forum.

http://forums.bobdun...orums/index.php

#12 BigRab

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:34 PM

Hi Jef,
Sadly no joy on finding anything about the tune or composer. But I have a few other piping friends I can ask. So I will get back to you once I have spoken to them
Cheer Rab

#13 CGM

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:59 PM

There are a few references if you do a google search

It's mentioned in The Piping Times, but I only know this because I found the index

See here

Scrolling down to 62/4 will tell you it was composed by A MacKillop

#14 von Smallhausen

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:24 PM

Hello Rab,
Thank you so much for your efforts and posts. Sorry for waiting so long to answer :blush: Sometimes I don't see the wood for the trees in this wonderful forum. Sometimes I have to go to my content to find back my posts :blush: ....
Kind regards,
Jef

#15 Alan Curragh

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:12 AM

Information supplied to the GWFTeam email - please contact me if you want Lloyd's email address

--

Hello;

There is a thread on your forum, having to do with the pipe tune
"Advancing on Wervicq"

The following information may be of use to one of your contributors.

John Francis McKillop was awarded the M.C. for his actions
at Wervicq on October 14 1918 ... He was at the time serving with
the London Regiment, but was formerly from the Highland Light
Infantry. (ref: several mentions in supplement to the London Gazette)

I've been informed that one Angus McKillop was formerly Pipe Major
to the Camerons, and I'm attempting to research a possible family
connection. My thought is that Angus may well have been the
"A. McKillop" who composed the tune, possibly as a tribute to John
(about whom I've learned very little.)

You have my permission to provide my email address to any
of your members who may wish to exchange information on
this.

Below is one of the Gazette references to John Francis McKillop:

Thank you, for any assistance you can provide.

Lloyd M. Bogart
______________________


9754 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 30 JULY, 1919
http://www.gazettes-...s/9754/page.pdf

[This last appears to be a Military Cross Commendation
-- it reads:]

Lt. John Francis McKillop, 2/24th Bn., attd.
/23rd Bn., Lond. R.
During the operations at Wervicq on October
14th, 1918, he led his company with splendid
courage and dash. In spite of considerable
machine-gun fire he gained the final objective
with very few casualties. During his advance
he rushed several machine-gun posts and
captured 150 prisoners and several machine
[page break to 9755]
guns. Though, wounded he refused to leave,
his company until he had seen his posts in the
final objective properly established.

#16 von Smallhausen

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:50 PM

Hello Allan,
Thank you for this great information. I tried to sent you a PM but I'm afraid it doesn' t work. Maybe your inbox is full?
I would be grateful if you could PM Lloyd's mailaddress.
Thank you again,
Jef

#17 Ron Abbott

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 12:36 PM

There was a Pipe-Major Angus Paul McKillop who served in the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders in the 1890s and who lived until 1942.

 

He was from Nairn as was his son, John Angus McKillop (also Camerons), who apparently died from wounds received at the Battle of Arras in 1917.

 

In an interview by the National Piping Centre in 2013, another piper, namely Jimmy McIntosh mentions a piper called Angus MacKillop 'from Perth' who beat him in a piping competition in 1945.  



#18 von Smallhausen

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

Thank You Ron,

I'll give the info to my "Wervicq" friend.

Jef



#19 Ron Abbott

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:20 AM

Mention of another piper called Angus McKillop (page 7) albeit in 1958:

 

http://archives.ubalt.edu/acgs/pdf/1959.pdf 



#20 Uistman59

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 11:16 AM

 

The Angus MacKillop 'from Perth' mentioned by Jimmy McIntosh is more than likely the same one in Ron's link. Angus MacIntyre MacKillop  (Born 21 Feb 1918 Died: 30 July 1994) Big Angus was an architect and a very good piper. His father was from Berneray, Harris and his mother from Benbecula, South Uist.

 

I think it is more likely that the composer of the tune was Angus Paul McKillop  (born 1863 and sometimes called Angus Paul) born in Nairn. There is a photo of his father Pipe Major Paul McKillop at ambaile.org which is noted as 1890. Angus Paul's son, John Angus Paul McKillop, D Coy. 7th Cameron Highlanders, died on 9 May 1917 of wounded received at the Battle of Arras, aged 26.



#21 von Smallhausen

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:45 PM

Thank you Ron and Uistman.

Jef



#22 Ron Abbott

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:22 AM

I agree with Uistman59.

 

However, it also begs the question as to why he would choose to compose a tune commemorating that specific military action?

It presumably meant something to him or someone close to him.

 

The tune also appears to be the only one by the same composer that has been published (based on Bob Pekaar's tune list).



#23 Ron Abbott

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:33 AM

I just obtained 'Floo'ers o' the Forest - Fallen Pipers of the Great War'. 

 

By coincidence, there is a Piper Malcolm MacKillop (S/22590) recorded in that book as having served in

the 7th (Service) Bn. Cameron Highlanders and then being posted to the depot at Cameron Barracks

in Inverness where he died on 15th Feb 1917. He was 20 years of age and survived by

his mother, Mrs. Marion MacPherson (formerly MacKillop), of 3 BaInain Street,
Inverness. Buried in the Clachan Sands Burial Ground, Inverness and commemorated
on the Trumisgarry War Memorial, North Uist.
 
Obviously not the tune's composer, but worth mentioning.


#24 von Smallhausen

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 08:42 AM

Thank you Ron, I will give the info to my friend,

Jef



#25 aad boode

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

 [/size]
The Angus MacKillop 'from Perth' mentioned by Jimmy McIntosh is more than likely the same one in Ron's link. Angus MacIntyre MacKillop  (Born 21 Feb 1918 Died: 30 July 1994) Big Angus was an architect and a very good piper. His father was from Berneray, Harris and his mother from Benbecula, South Uist.
 
I think it is more likely that the composer of the tune was Angus Paul McKillop  (born 1863 and sometimes called Angus Paul) born in Nairn. There is a photo of his father Pipe Major Paul McKillop at ambaile.org which is noted as 1890. Angus Paul's son, John Angus Paul McKillop, D Coy. 7th Cameron Highlanders, died on 9 May 1917 of wounded received at the Battle of Arras, aged 26.


Uistman59,
Do you happen to know in which regiment the father (Paul McKillop) was a Pipe Major and what his year/place of birth and death are?
Aad