15 replies to this topic

[madman]

Hi all

in possession of soldiers pay book and medals , in the paybook the title is on top of a page , it states 'entitled to four blue overseas chevrons' couple of questions what are these and what would they signify , what would they have been awarded for

cheers
nathan

[munster]

Hi Nathan They were issued for service in a given year Red being 1914 and blue for subsequent years, Your soldier would i would say have gone overseas 1915. Worn on right lower sleeve they were a small chevron worn inverted.I am sure anything mistaken or missed will be corrected.john

[GRUMPY]

Good brief summary of the essentials.

Two points: the heraldic chevron was depicting a roof support, so an INVERTED one is in fact point down.

Many people believe one red and four blue was the max. possible.

Because the N Russia expedition was in 1919 it also attracted the chevron, so max. is one plus five.

There is a uniform with these in the National Army Museum.

[khaki]

Were they issued progressively throughout the war or were they issued in 1919
khaki

[centurion]

Where does emolument come in? An emolument is a payment, fee etc

[madman]

thanks for the help

so if cheverons idicate oversea service does this mean he was sent overseas four times

'EMOLUMENTS' is printed on top of the page underwich reference to cheverons is written in pencil , will try post picture if of any help
cheers nathan

[centurion]

madman, on 09 April 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

thanks for the help

so if cheverons idicate oversea service does this mean he was sent overseas four times

I think it represents the time he has spent overseas not the number of times he was sent. Other wise a man went to France in 1914 and served there until 1918 would only have one chevron which is not the case.

[GRUMPY]

khaki, on 09 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Were they issued progressively throughout the war or were they issued in 1919
khaki

First issues early 1918, with issues backdated.

[FROGSMILE]

centurion, on 09 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I think it represents the time he has spent overseas not the number of times he was sent. Other wise a man went to France in 1914 and served there until 1918 would only have one chevron which is not the case.

Emoluments was a standard term used in the Army Pay Book (AB 64) that for generations had to be carried by each soldier on his person.  It was also a form of ID and in addition recorded details of 'service', including awards for such, like the overseas chevrons, as sometimes such badges could carry extra pay (although not in this case).



Soldier's Pay Book 64 (Part II), will be issued for active service.

Entries in this book (other than those connected with the making of a Soldier's, Will and insertion of the names, of relatives) are to be made under the superintendence of an Officer.

-------------------------------

Instructions to Soldier.

1.

You are held personally responsible for the safe custody of this book.

2.

You will always carry this book on your person.

3.

You must produce the book whenever called upon to do so by a competent military authority, viz., Officer, Warrant Officer, N.C.O. or Military Policeman.

4.

You must not alter or make any entry in this book (except as regards your next of kin on pages 10 and 11 or your Will on pages 15 to 20).

5.

Should you lose the book, you will report the matter to your immediate military superior.

6.

On your transfer to the Army Reserve this book will be handed into your Orderly Room for transmission, through the O. i/c Records to place of rejoining on mobilization.

7.

You will be permitted to retain this book after discharge it cannot be replaced.

8.

If you are discharged from the Army Reserve, this book will be forwarded to you by the O. i/c Records.

[munster]

GRUMPY, on 09 April 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Good brief summary of the essentials.

Two points: the heraldic chevron was depicting a roof support, so an INVERTED one is in fact point down.

Many people believe one red and four blue was the max. possible.

Because the N Russia expedition was in 1919 it also attracted the chevron, so max. is one plus five.

There is a uniform with these in the National Army Museum.

Never knew the roof support origin of the chevron, and i would not have included North Russia in the number issued.john

[centurion]

munster, on 09 April 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Never knew the roof support origin of the chevron,

Especially since in medieval architecture a normal v  (on a cross  rafter) was used as often as an inverted one as a roof support.

[Suddery]

GRUMPY, on 09 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

First issues early 1918, with issues backdated.

This is of great interest to me, particularly as an aid to the dating of photographs.

May I infer it as a given, from your response, that if "Overseas Chevrons" appear on the appropriate sleeve then said picture is of a 1918 plus vintage ?

A nod towards the concomitant instruction / order would also be most appreciated.

Best Regards

Suddery

[Suddery]

Apologies for posting on a post but this thread has set me thinking.

As the stripes were issued from 1918 who was actually responsible for the administration of correct assignment, issue and despatch. It must have been a substantial task especially at a time of significant upheaval on the Western Front when other issues of supply would so obviously have taken precedence. Was it perhaps a 3rd echelon function or delegated to battalion depots etc. ?

Suddery

[michaeldr]

Blame the French

"The term is derived from the French word chevron, meaning rafter, and the heraldic chevron is the same shape as a gable rafter"
from 'The Complete Guide to Heraldry' by A C Fox-Davies, 1925 (see p.122)

[GRUMPY]

Suddery, on 14 April 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

This is of great interest to me, particularly as an aid to the dating of photographs.

May I infer it as a given, from your response, that if "Overseas Chevrons" appear on the appropriate sleeve then said picture is of a 1918 plus vintage ?

A nod towards the concomitant instruction / order would also be most appreciated.

Best Regards

Suddery

Yes you are correct, not before Jan 1918.

Please PM me if you need a little more, busy at the moment.

[Suddery]

GRUMPY, on 15 April 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Yes you are correct, not before Jan 1918.

Please PM me if you need a little more, busy at the moment.

Again, many thanks.

I won't disturb a busy man but if passing this thread again perhaps you be kind enough to consider the points I raised in posting no.13.

Suddery