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#1 Wesley Wright

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

PHELAN, The Rev. STUART J. (Stewart)
Rank:
ChaplainDate of Death:31/05/1916Age:37Regiment/Service:Royal NavyH.M.S. "Black Prince" Panel ReferenceMemorialPORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Member of the OMI.

anyone anyadditional information on this gentleman?his sisterFrancis was in the Immacalata Convent in Magherafelt.County Londonderry--my home town.

Wesley Wright


#2 seaJane

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

Puzzled by not being able to find him in the Navy List - "Black Prince"'s chaplain is given as the Rev. William Webber. I'll try a little earlier in the War when I next get into the reading room. Hold the line.

#3 Siege Gunner

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:28 AM

"Black Prince"'s chaplain is given as the Rev. William Webber.

Webber was the Anglican chaplain, Jane, and Phelan was the RC chaplain (Naval Who's Who 1917, Officers & Men killed in action at Jutland Bank, 31 May 1916, HMS Black Prince).

#4 alf mcm

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

Wesley,
According to the 1911 Census {England} Stewart Joseph was a Roman Catholic Priest and was living in Mount St. Marys, Leeds in the West Riding of Yorkshire. He was apparently born in Derry, County Kerry, in about 1879.

Resards,

Alf McM

#5 seaJane

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:45 AM

Thanks for that Mick - the Navy List seems to include only the top-level RC chaplain in its listings and none of the others!

#6 michaeldr

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:18 PM

the Navy List seems to include only the top-level RC chaplain in its listings and none of the others!


The position of Roman Catholic chaplains in the Royal Navy of WWI was not the same as that of their Anglican brethren
from The Cross on the Sword by Johnstone & Hagerty
“In the new circumstances of [RC] chaplains at sea, it became painfully apparent to Catholic priests serving afloat how different their status was compared to Church of England chaplains, who ranked with other commissioned officers. Fr. Bradley went further than any other naval chaplain explaining to Westminster [the arch-diocese] the injustice of their position. Fr. Bradley wrote of the 'sufferance' under which he laboured and stressed the need to have Catholic chaplains on a secure commissioned basis. Although he explained he was not interested in pay, per se, Fr. Bradley told how he was paid in a different way to officers and Anglican chaplains. He was not on the ship's books and therefore 'cannot purchase things from the paymaster's stores in my own name'. He pointed out that he would get no compensation if wounded or invalided out. Bradley also drew attention to the iniquity of the system whereby Catholic chaplains could not be awarded decorations reserved for officers – and gives an example. He writes that Admiral Beatty was in favour of commissioning Catholic chaplains and pointed out that Fr. Patrick Gibbons held a commission in the Royal Australian Navy.”

Phelan is mentioned in the above book – see p.64
"There were no fewer than six Catholic priests present at the Battle of Jutland: Frs Thomas Bradley, Tiger; William Driscoll, Natal; Patrick Gibbons, HMAS Australia; William Meagher, Bellerophon; Stewart Phelan OMI, Black Prince; and Anthony Pollen in Warspite. In the course of the battle HMS Black Prince was sunk and Fr. Phelan was listed as missing presumed drowned. He became the second Catholic naval chaplain to die in the war.”

regards
Michael


edit to add further details also from Johnstone & Hagerty
On 2 August 1918 full-time naval officiating chaplains became 'Acting Roman Catholic Chaplains'
In 1921 Acting Chaplains were gazetted as Temporary Chaplains
17 November 1943 they became Roman Catholic Chaplains, Royal Navy

Edited by michaeldr, 02 May 2012 - 12:58 PM.


#7 FitzroyPC

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:42 PM

born in Derry, County Kerry

Typo?

#8 FitzroyPC

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:47 PM

Wesley

I have some Phelans in my Servicemen Pictures Library ... I will check if your man is one of them

Nigel

#9 seaJane

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Michael, very informative post, thank you.

#10 alf mcm

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:26 PM

Yes, its a typo!

Should be Dingle, County Kerry.

Regards,

Alf


born in Derry, County Kerry

Typo?



#11 alf mcm

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:21 PM

The following link shows some of the problems faced by Catholic Priests, in the Army and Navy:-

http://www.monlib.or...1998hagerty.pdf

Regards,

Alf McM

#12 Wesley Wright

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

Wesley

I have some Phelans in my Servicemen Pictures Library ... I will check if your man is one of them

Nigel


Thanks--I suspect he may have been born in Co.Londonderry or Derry!

#13 museumtom

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

'I suspect he may have been born in Co.Londonderry or Derry! ' You would be incorrect. He was born in Dingle.His name in Irish is Ó Faoláin which can also be translated as Whelan. His father was the Lighthouse Keeper, on Teeraght Island,
Cheers.
Tom

#14 FitzroyPC

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 07:15 AM

Wesley

Sorry, not in my library.

Nigel

#15 Wesley Wright

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:47 AM

Thanks to everyone for all the information. Much appreciated.
Wesley Wright

#16 Audax

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:23 AM

Fr Phelan's name appears on the Necrology list complied by the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate here http://www.omiworld....npp=100&page=74

#17 TeeCeeCee

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 03:46 AM

The position of Roman Catholic chaplains in the Royal Navy of WWI was not the same as that of their Anglican brethren
from The Cross on the Sword by Johnstone & Hagerty
"In the new circumstances of [RC] chaplains at sea, it became painfully apparent to Catholic priests serving afloat how different their status was compared to Church of England chaplains, who ranked with other commissioned officers. Fr. Bradley went further than any other naval chaplain explaining to Westminster [the arch-diocese] the injustice of their position. Fr. Bradley wrote of the 'sufferance' under which he laboured and stressed the need to have Catholic chaplains on a secure commissioned basis. Although he explained he was not interested in pay, per se, Fr. Bradley told how he was paid in a different way to officers and Anglican chaplains. He was not on the ship's books and therefore 'cannot purchase things from the paymaster's stores in my own name'. He pointed out that he would get no compensation if wounded or invalided out. Bradley also drew attention to the iniquity of the system whereby Catholic chaplains could not be awarded decorations reserved for officers – and gives an example. He writes that Admiral Beatty was in favour of commissioning Catholic chaplains and pointed out that Fr. Patrick Gibbons held a commission in the Royal Australian Navy."

Phelan is mentioned in the above book – see p.64
"There were no fewer than six Catholic priests present at the Battle of Jutland: Frs Thomas Bradley, Tiger;


Fr Bradley was the priest to the 1st BCS, I thought he was aboard Lion as IWM have a, or his 'Lion' hat band. But I bow to greater knowledge.

He took the last images of Queen Mary: there's this and there's a second very like it that includes Tigers deck.

Posted Image

#18 michaeldr

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:48 AM

But I bow to greater knowledge
No need to bow, as you could well be right!

Johnstone & Hagerty's page 64 is indeed as I have quoted here previously
However, I now see that they also have the following on page 281:
“... Fr Thomas Bradley CSSR ... … … had been both a military and naval chaplain in World War I. One of Fr Bradley's ancestors, Admiral Sir Thomas Hardy, was Nelson's Flag Captain at Trafalgar. Because of his connections he transferred from the Army to the Navy when the opportunity arose, and was slightly wounded while serving in Lion at Jutland.”

Reverting to their WWI chapters in 'The Cross on the Sword' the authors give Bradley as serving at Purfleet with the Royal West Kent until the early weeks of 1915. On 25th February 1915 he transferred to the 2nd Battle-Cruiser Squadron, initially in the New Zealand.

Edit to add: on page 52 of The Cross on the Sword the authors have included a letter written by William Francis Jones of No. 4 Mess, HMS Tiger on 25th June 1915 and addressed to the Cardinal at Westminster. The letter complains that Fr Bradley is over-stretched and begs the Cardinal to send another priest. Jones concludes with
“PS The Tiger belongs to the 1st Battle Cruiser Squadron and the New Zealand belongs to the 2nd Battle Cruiser Squadron. It is too much for one priest to do the work on about 10 great battleships”


... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

BRADLEY, The Rev. THOMAS FREDERICK
Rank: Chaplain Date of Death: 02/07/1943 Regiment/Service: Royal Navy H.M.S. Resolution Panel Reference Panel 78, Column 1. Memorial PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Thomas John and Maria Honoria Bradley

Edited by michaeldr, 27 August 2012 - 06:32 AM.


#19 TeeCeeCee

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:42 AM

But I bow to greater knowledge
No need to bow, as you could well be right!

Johnstone & Hagerty's page 64 is indeed as I have quoted here previously
However, I now see that they also have the following on page 281:
“... Fr Thomas Bradley CSSR ... … … had been both a military and naval chaplain in World War I. One of Fr Bradley's ancestors, Admiral Sir Thomas Hardy, was Nelson's Flag Captain at Trafalgar. Because of his connections he transferred from the Army to the Navy when the opportunity arose, and was slightly wounded while serving in Lion at Jutland.”

No Mike, I don't think I am. Someone will have given him the Lion hatband... maybe he gave a crew-member pastoral advice or something along those lines?

The chaplain aboard Lion at Jutland was killed, it was Chatfield that read the prayers over the dead. Indeed, in checking this I found accounts of Tiger at Jutland from Fr Bradleys diary. Plus as the above photo shows, he was aboard Tiger that day.

Still you've given a broader picture with those quotes, thank you. The "10 great battleships" mentioned by William Francis Jones? There were 10 BCs in the BCF before Jutland. So he must have tried to minister to all the ships in 1, 2 & 3BCS.

#20 TeeCeeCee

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:08 AM

"There were no fewer than six Catholic priests present at the Battle of Jutland: Frs Thomas Bradley, Tiger; William Driscoll, Natal; Patrick Gibbons, HMAS Australia; William Meagher, Bellerophon; Stewart Phelan OMI, Black Prince; and Anthony Pollen in Warspite. In the course of the battle HMS Black Prince was sunk and Fr. Phelan was listed as missing presumed drowned. He became the second Catholic naval chaplain to die in the war."

regards
Michael


Do you think this is him? 2nd in from the right?


Attached File  Tiger SP 1604.jpg   63.03KB   4 downloads

#21 michaeldr

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Well, it looks like a good bet
But how you would actually confirm it, I don't know

#22 TeeCeeCee

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:30 AM

"Well, it looks like a good bet
But how you would actually confirm it, I don't know"


:hypocrite: I don't either but once I saw this image, I thought this thread was the right place to show it. Is it a dog collar? I too think it is worth putting money on.

You can google his obit in the 'catholic herald' pretty easily; he died in 1943 aged 57, so that makes him born circa 1886... and about 30 yrs old in 1916. That bet is looking better!

http://archive.catho...eptember-1943/5

http://archive.catho...naval-ch-aplain

If your interested, Naval-History site has the date and ship he was passanger on:

2 July 1943

Hoihow, steamship

BRADLEY, Rev THOMAS F, Chaplain (Resolution, O/P), killed


http://www.naval-his...s1943-07JUL.htm

p.s thought occured to me, it might even have been his camera that took the photo? (though it's marked as from the Oscar Parkes collection) He took some of the battle damge on Tiger including the famous view (below) and as he had a camera (and a 'roving comission') a lot of his images abound.

Attached File  Tiger Bradley SP1597 and HU69071.jpg   30.05KB   0 downloads

#23 seaJane

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

Oddly enough I have finally found R.C. Chaplain the Rev. S.J. Phelan in the Navy List while looking for someone else: April 1918, under "Officers and Men killed in action", in the section for May 1916.