29 replies to this topic

[carolm]

I have been sent a copy of photo which appears to be of a military funeral. The picture was undated. The location is Peterhead in Aberdeenshire. I'm assuming that the deceased was a former Gordon and I'd like to see if I could find out who he was. For this  I need an approximate date. The onlookers are all wearing coats (it is Peterhead after all!) so it's difficult to judge by clothing style. There is one women on the right of the picture wearing what looks like a 1920s or early 1930s hat, but it could be later and she's just unfashionable. However I was hoping someone could make a more educated estimate of the date by the uniforms or the vehicle.

Thanks

Carolyn

 Funeral-3.JPG   91.73K   22 downloads

[Waddell]

Hi Carolyn,

I believe the truck is a Morris CS8, so you are looking at 1934-35 onwards.

Scott

[centurion]

I think its the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial CDSW). This was introduced in 1935 for the 25 pounder and other guns and was only in service for a year or so as it was replaced by the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial C8 Mk II). Traditional to use an artillery vehicle for a military funeral.

[TRAJAN]

Thanks Centurion,

I thought it reminded me of my (now long lost) Dinky toy 25 pounder tractor!

Trajan

[Stoppage Drill]

centurion, on 22 May 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think its the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial CDSW). This was introduced in 1935 for the 25 pounder and other guns and was only in service for a year or so as it was replaced by the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial C8 Mk II). Traditional to use an artillery vehicle for a military funeral.

Being driven by a gunner NCO if you look.

[centurion]

TRAJAN, on 22 May 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Thanks Centurion,

I thought it reminded me of my (now long lost) Dinky toy 25 pounder tractor!

Trajan

Still got my Dinky 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial C8 Mk III) plus limber plus gun types he smugly

[Waddell]

centurion, on 22 May 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think its the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial CDSW). This was introduced in 1935 for the 25 pounder and other guns and was only in service for a year or so as it was replaced by the 4X4 Artillery tractor (Morris Commercial C8 Mk II). Traditional to use an artillery vehicle for a military funeral.

Centurion,

Weren't the CDSW six wheeled? The truck in the photo appears to be four wheeled.

Scott

[centurion]

Correct 6X4 (I made a typo.) If the vehicle in the OP is four wheeled then there is a lot of overhang behind the rear wheels. I think its the angle of the photo and there is another pair.

[4thGordons]

Carolyn,
Any chance of a close up of the BELTS being worn by the men either side of the vehicle.
They look as though they might be narrower than the P08 belts (although it is hard to tell with greatcoats on) in which case they are likely to be P'37 web belts which would put the date further forward.
Chris

[carolm]

Thanks guys. Chris has also added: " The belts are definitely P08 belts but these held on for a while even into WWII so I suspect this is early-mid 30s date. Pre WWII I would think. "

Would people agree to it being pre-WW2? Or could it be a WW2 funeral?

Carolyn

[T8HANTS]

I think because the morris has a civilian style number plate it is pre war or very early war.  I think by late 1940 the military census numbers begining with L xxxx or T xxxx depending on type had been adopted.

My Morris C9/B begins with an S, but some of you will know why.

[high wood]

Having looked at the difference in age between the soldiers forming the honour guard and the men following behind, I wonder if it is not the funeral of a regimental old comrade, perhaps a Great War veteran of some distinction such as a gallantry medal winner.

[carolm]

I also thought it looked like a funeral for a WW1 veteran. I originally had in mind an MC, winner, blinded at Arras in 1917, who died in 1929, but given what's been said here, that looks extremely unlikely.  The lady who sent me the photo wondered if it could have been a Corporal of the Engineers who died trying to defuse a mine in 1941. I thought there would have been more soldiers and fewer civilians in the procession if that were the case. But I was just guessing.
Anyway, thanks for the input.

Carolyn

[allen h]

Have you tried contacting the local newspapers and also the library for that town.
With the wonderful clarity of the photo it would very disappointing not to obtain further information
Keep trying and good luck

ALLEN

[bill24chev]

i thought it may be the funeral of George Findlater VC But he died in WW2(1942 I beleive) and a date this late seems to have been ruled out.

[Stoppage Drill]

Not a single medal in sight - the soldiers would not wear them in Greatcoat Order but would you not have thought the Old Comrade (?) mourners would have them pinned up ? I concur with the suggestion to trawl newspapers - this is an excellent quality photograph, certainly of professional standard. Probably for a newspaper.
If it was Findlater V.C.'s funeral in '42, the RA driver would be in BD wouldn't he ? Not SD ?

[carolm]

Once again thanks. The lack of medals did trouble me too, but I couldn't think what else the civilians would be except Old Comrades. If the funeral was for a civilian - eg a local dignitary, why the military escort? My purpose in trying to narrow down the date is so that it would be easier to check the local papers. I have to get a friend in Peterhead to do it for me and I wanted to make it as easy as possible.

Carolyn

[TRAJAN]

Can't help with dating the event, but has anybody else noted that (1), there are two groups in the procession - those imemdiately behind the tractor, who are escorted by soldiers, and a second lot walking about 2-4 yards behind the last two soldiers; and (2), the chap at the very end of the photograph is so high up that IMO he is driving a horse-pulled vehicle of some kind - a second funeral car? or horse-pulled charabanc?

Trajan

[Stoppage Drill]

Yes, I had noticed the driver of a horse team. Seeing as it was a Scottish funeral I assumed it was a brewers dray for the wake ! To narrow your initial newspaper search Carolyn, go through editions October-March first - civilians would wear whatever the weather required, but soldiers would only wear Great Coat Order in autumn/winter. Good Luck.

[TRAJAN]

Stoppage Drill, on 24 May 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Seeing as it was a Scottish funeral I assumed it was a brewers dray for the wake !

And there was I trying to be polite about the thing!

Trajan

[high wood]

Do we know the exact location of the photograph and if so is there a cemetery near by? If there is it may be useful to spend an afternoon wandering around it in the search for military graves or a civilian headstone with a military inscription. The cortege appears to have been photographed on a bridge possibly over a railway or a river; notice the embankment to the right of the photograph.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

For those members lucky enough to remember Dinky Toys, I have in my military toy collection the various sets Dinky issued for the Field Artillery Tractor mentioned previously, all are in mint condition in their original boxes.

Set 688 - Field Artillery Tractor.
Set 697 - Gift set comprising of the Field Artillery Tractor - 25 pounder Field Gun - Field Gun Trailer.
Set 697 ( later version with windows ) - Gift set comprising of the Field Artillery Tractor - 25 pounder Field Gun - Field Gun Trailer.

LF

Attached Files

•  dinky toys 1.jpg   60.37K   1 downloads
•  dinky toys 2.jpg   76.8K   1 downloads
•  dinky toys 3.jpg   97.42K   1 downloads

[TRAJAN]

I could have sworn blue that mine was a sand coloured one... A Suez commemorative piece? I do remember the army parading through Didcot in sand-coloured vehicles at the time.

Trajan

[Lancashire Fusilier]

TRAJAN, on 26 May 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I could have sworn blue that mine was a sand coloured one... A Suez commemorative piece? I do remember the army parading through Didcot in sand-coloured vehicles at the time.

Trajan

I have only ever seen these sets is this colour, perhaps your childhood memory is of the sand coloured vehicles going through Didcot.
Regards,
LF

[TRAJAN]

Could well be that I was conflating the two! I don't remember having the ammo limber/trailer but I do remember the tractor and the gun - didn't the gun have a matchstick firing set-up?

Trajan