19 replies to this topic

[seany]

I am researching artillery in Italy during 1918 - my GF having been there with the 293rd siege battery RGA. I found a diary written by a Catholic priest from the parish close to where the battery where positioned. one entry intrigues me -

On Sunday 17^th of February Don Antonio (the priest, describes an unexploded bomb being found in Montebelluna that was five feet long and weighed more than a ton.

This seems enormous - is it possible and what would have dropped it?

[Robert Dunlop]

Has the diary been translated into English? Presuming that Don Antonio wrote the original in Italian, do you know what Italian word he used for 'bomb'?

Robert

[centurion]

Big bombs were available
 bombs.jpg   79.66K   0 downloads
Bombs available to German forces 1917/18

[centurion]

Some aircraft max bombloads
Friedrichshafen G IIIa 3,300 lb (short range)
Gotha G IV 1,100 lb
Zeppelin-Straken D VI 4,400 lb (short range) 2,200 lb (normal range) [1000kg (2,200 lb) bombs were dropped on London]

Handley Page O/400 2,000 lb

Caproni Ca 42 3,910 lb

The Zeppelin L59 carried 14,100 lbs of bombs on a raid on Italy in 1918.

An Imperial ton =  2,240 lbs

[centurion]

On December 26th 1917  Montebelluna was bombed by a mixture of KuK and possibly some German aircraft. Some of these were twin engined heavy bombers  either Gotha or Friedrichshafen (the RFC shot one down over Montebelluna). The KuK operated LVG built Gothas. My guess is that the 'ton' is an exageration and the bomb was a 500Kg one from a Gotha. This would be the 2nd largest in the photo above.

[centurion]

The bomber would have looked like the KuK one  pictured in this link http://combatace.com...rian-gotha-giv/
The artist has shown it with two bombs but it could carry a single 500kg one.
KuK Gothas were built in Germany by LVG under license but re engined with Austro Daimler engines which were more powerful than the original Mercedes so its just possible it might have been able to lift a bigger bomb.

[seany]

Maybe an exaggeration or mis translation but even so from Centurions evidence still pretty big - I was thinking a Zeppelin had dropped it but no activity of that kind on that date.

[seany]

Robert,

the direct untranslated quote is -

'una bomba inesplosa di dimensioni fenomenali - e lunga un metro e sessanta e pesa oltra un quintale'

[centurion]

That is a metre long and a quintale heavy - at that time a quintal was 100kg (at least in Amerian measurement).  So just over 3 foot long and about 220lb. Not that big - the smallest bomb in the photo. Almost any aircraft in the 26th Dec raid could carry one.

[seany]

How disappointing - so much for google translation - I just ran it through them again 'about five feet long and besides weighs a ton'

[TRAJAN]

Hang about, 'un metro e sessanta' is 1.60, which is 5 foot 3 inches... So Google was right, and Centurion (sorry, but!) wrong on this as being "just over 3 foot long"...

Trajan

[seany]

but I suspect correct about the weight - either way its a big unexploded bomb to find in your garden. I'm looking through non military diaries to get an idea of the Italian front from a different perspective and this unexploded is frightening and if its these things being dropped on his parish I imagine that has quite an impact on the citizens.

[centurion]

Lets approach this by what was possible

Whilst there were bombs on both sides as heavy as  (or close to ) one ton There were few aircraft that could deliver them. These were the;

Zeppelin-Straken D VI
Friedrichshafen G III and IIIa
Handley Page O/400
Handley Page V/1500

(Whilst they could lift more than that weight I don't think that the big Capronis had the right bomb carrying arrangements.)

Of the four that could none of them were used in theatre (and the V/1500 wasn't even operational. Thus we can rule out a one ton bomb dropped by either side. The next bomb down in weight used by the German and KuK forces was the 500kg bomb (about half a ton). This was one possible load for the Gotha which were used by the KuK and we know that Gothas were encountered on the raid in question. If quintale is some antiquated Italian for a 'five hundreder'  (it translates in a modern tranlator as quintal) then this would seem a likely candidate - except that it was longer than 5 feet long. The next bomb down was the 300kg which was a closer to 5 feet but the weight is all wrong. The next down was the 100kg - about a metre long and weighing one common definition of a quintal. A very commonly used bomb

Basically no bomb available seems to fit the description but the 500kg and the 100kg come closest.

[seany]

Whilst I would hesitate to approach an unexploded bomb I would rather measure its height than weight it. Don Antonio in his diary is relaying that he was told such a bomb had been found and its size obviously made it note worthy enough to go in the diary - he never measured or weighed it and I suspect an element of guessing or exaggeration is more than likely particularly for people not used to seeing such items.

Re what was in the theatre there are accounts of a Zeppelin being seen. Father Lodovico another parish priest at Motta di Livenza (Austrian occupied area) noted his surprise at seeing one on the 11th March and the next day an Italian Major of engineers states that one - I assume the same - was used in an attack on Naples. The tone of both accounts suggests this was an unusual occurance.

[centurion]

The L 59 was the purpose built cargo carrying  "Africa Ship" that went, from a base in Bulgaria, almost to German SE Africa with supplies for the German forces there but returned to base having received a fake recall wireless message. It was then modified to be a bombing Super Zeppelin and used for very long range strategic bombing and recce missions in what might be loosely called the Mediterranean Theatre. Naples was one such target as was Port Said in Egypt. However these missions only began in Mid Feb 1918. Naples was the last successful raid as the ship was lost with all hands on a mission to bomb Malta shortly afterwards. The raids and recce approach flights were all at very high altitude and/or over water as much as possible and the targets ports that would no more expect a Zeppelin raid than they would the Spanish Inquisition.[Naples did not even have a black out]
Whilst I do not have specific info on the L59's bomb bays (she being a converted one off) in general,  due to  bomb bay restrictions, the largest Zeppelin bomb was the 300 kg. L 59 could carry a lot of these.

[apwright]

Just to throw a spanner in the works perhaps: "pesa un quintale" is also a figurative expression in Italian with the same meaning as the English "it weighs a ton" - not necessarily meaning that it literally weighs one ton(ne), just that "it's bl**dy heavy".

Adrian

[TRAJAN]

apwright, on 30 May 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

..."pesa un quintale" is also a figurative expression in Italian with the same meaning as the English "it weighs a ton"...

So we go back to the height / length factor then, as that 'un metro e sessanta' = 1.60 m. doesn't sound like a figurative expression... Could it be the first on the left in Centurion's photo' in post 03?

Trajan

[centurion]

TRAJAN, on 30 May 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

So we go back to the height / length factor then, as that 'un metro e sessanta' = 1.60 m. doesn't sound like a figurative expression... Could it be the first on the left in Centurion's photo' in post 03?

Trajan

The 100kg (220lb) bomb which is under 5 feet long. Don't forget a UXB is usually (always?) minus its tail fins.

[centurion]

TRAJAN, on 30 May 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

So we go back to the height / length factor then, as that 'un metro e sessanta' = 1.60 m. doesn't sound like a figurative expression...

Apparently in Northern Italy it once used to mean "a big boy" or grown up. The Father might be saying its "a real biggy weighs a ton" which gets us nowhere unfortunately.

[TRAJAN]

centurion, on 30 May 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

...The 100kg (220lb) bomb which is under 5 feet long. Don't forget a UXB is usually (always?) minus its tail fins....

Thanks! I was working on the basis of 1.60 m being the total length and the smaller of the men being in the 5'-5'6" category.

Trajan