15 replies to this topic

[john_g]

Hi,

I am trying to find out the full name of the pilot who was shot down on this date in B3780.  Lt H O McDonald was taken p.o.w., can anyone help?

cheers

john_g



www.66squadron.co.uk

[Trevor Henshaw]

John,

As per his Repatriated Prisoner Statement he was Hubert Orr McDonald - here's the expanded entry for the events that day

B3780    Sopwith Camel    70Sqn

**OP lost formation in thunder clouds on return with poor engine, then dived on by 6 EAs 5m EoL, tank hit then got away into clouds but lightning stopped compass, ftl cr near WASSENMOLEN-KLERKEN bad cr MIA (Lt HO McDonald POW) left 8-15am to ROULERS - COURTRAI - MENIN ['Sopwith' claim combat HOUTHULST – LANGEMARCK 9-25am Ltn R Wendelmuth Ja8] Δ

Regards,

Trevor

[Cnock]

Hello,

there is no 'Wassenmolen' near Klerken
Should be Wallemolen (near Graventafel Ridge between Poelkapelle and Passendale)

regards,

Cnock

[Trevor Henshaw]

Eddy, Thanks very much for this information - just the sort of correct detail I like!
All the best,
Trevor

[john_g]

Thanks Trevor for the information I will chase it up.

[john_g]

Hi Trevor,

There is no AIR76 for Hubert Orr McDonald but there is one for Hubert Orr MacDonald, obviously the same man but I wonder which was the correct spelling, did you get it off the Repatriated Prisoner Statement?  I have an H O MacDonald in the Coxs list but my photographs is signed H O McDonald?

john_g

[¤Bruno¤]

Bonjour
others infos here


http://airforce.ca/u.../gong-6m-n.html

MacDONALD, Lieutenant Hubert Orr - Mentioned for Valuable Services in Captivity - authority uncertain. Born in Ottawa; educated in Switzerland and Germany; father was in Russia as branch manager, Massey-Harris Company. Commissioned in Finch Township Militia, December 1915; appointed 2nd Lieutenant, RFC in Canada, 21 November 1916 (confirmed in rank, 27 April 1917); at Reading, 22 November 1916; to No.70 Squadron, 24 July 1917; missing, POW, 29 July 1917; repatriated 22 January 1919.

Cordialement
Bruno

[Trevor Henshaw]

Agree, we should get to the bottom of the name - I'll look in a few other sources.  Looks like it may well be Mac

Regards,

Trevor

[topgun1918]

It gets worse.

The entry in London Gazette number 31691 (16 December 1919) reads:

Mentioned in Reports for valuable services whilst in captivity, and noted accordingly in the Official Records of the Air Ministry: —

Lieutenant Hubert Orr Macdonald.

So it appears his name is Mac, but is it MacD or Macd?

Graeme

[Trevor Henshaw]

^{I've just checked a number of sources and gone back to the RPS as well.  In two places on the RPS form his name is given as McDonald.  He appears five times in Flight in official listings, and again all five are McDonald.  I believe this is his spelling.
Regards,
Trevor}  

[Trelawney]

Trevor & John

The registry of Ontario Births lists Hubert Orr McDonald and his parents are recorded as R.O. & Jane (Lowe) McDonald--so this lends
support to your last post. As John said, his RAF service record (AIR 76/315) lists "Hubert Orr MacDonald," but many of the RAF records I have seen are minimalist transcriptions, lacking birthdates (as does this one), and occasionally getting the names wrong (such as
Peter Aitken MacDougall vs McDougall).

Trelawney

[john_g]

Hi Trelawney,

That is really useful information, if I get any further I wll let you know.

John

[john_g]

I have found a WO339 record for him concerning his transfer from the CEF top the RFC in Canada and his posting to the UK.
Hubert Orr McDonald Born 31/10/1895 (no Location), Joined Canadian Army as a Lt on 20/12/15.  230 Bn CEF, 24/10/16 applied in Canada to join RFC, 21/11/16 2/Lt on Probation to  join RFC at 1 SoI Reading by 4.00 pm on that day. 27/04/17 FO.  His Occupation was a Student; it also notes he had been educated at Lalekam Nothdown, Margate, England?  Father? manager of Russian Branch Massey Harris Co.  Interestingly there were two other people called James Orr McDonald and James Orr D McDonald born in Cockermouth in 1897 and 1904 respectively, they must have been related?

john-g


www.66squadron.co.uk


It all seems to confirm that the spelling on the AIR76 and Cox's and Co list of P.o.W's is misspelt.

[skipman]

My wife's great uncle was born Alexander McPhee. As Pte 703843 102nd battalion CEF, he signed his own name as "MacPhee" http://www.collectio...f&id_nbr=167759

I suppose the name on the birth certificate is his real name, but MacPhee was the one he preferred. There are a number of Mac's and Mc's I am researching, and I'm not convinced the spelling mattered much to them. There are no doubt some who could not write or spell very well, if at all. I don't know if Alexander (born McPhee) had children, but if he did, they were probably MacPhee's?

Mike

[john_g]

Surely if a name is incorrect and you know the right name then if possible it should be posted if only to save other people a potential long and fruitless search for the correct name?

I have been searching for and F L Taylor for months, that is the way his name was spelt in the Wing and Squadron records. It turned out his name was actually Tayler and that enabled me to find his records at the TNA and the Royal Aero Club. There is one record in Air76 that has been misread by someone and posted as J H Wickett, even though the record contains the correct name of T H (Thomas Haldane) Wickett but although I have pointed out to the TNA it is wrong they refuse to correct, thereby perpetuating the incorrect name. And there are others as well.  As far as I am concerned if it incorrect then it should be put right and the error should not be perpetuated it only adds confusion and the incorrect name becomes validated.  Also take note that in AIR76 where there are names or initials for say G or George Brown and not much other detail then these records are often listed under one name and you are left to sort out who was who, I have managed to get the TNA to separate some of these records as I found them.

john-g


www.66squadron.co.uk

[skipman]

" Surely if a name is incorrect and you know the right name then if possible it should be posted if only to save other people a potential long and fruitless search for the correct name? "

I can't argue with that. Good point.

Mike