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Guide to Sporrans (continued)


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#226 gordon92

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

View Postjjd, on 11 June 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Hello Mike
My grandfather (Edward Rowles 2537) was wounded in June 1915, at I believe Givenchy, blown out of trench by shell and had shrapnel wounds to head, arms etc (some pieces he carried throughout his life)and a machine gun wound to his neck but he recovered and was transferred to Lovat Scouts by August 1915, when he married. He appears to have served with Lovat Scouts until early in 1918 but was then transferred to 5/Battalion Cameron Highlanders and finished the war with them as part of the occupying force in the Ruhr. He was discharged from army on 23/02/1919 at Perth.
For some reason my grandfather seemed to have retained his Cameron dress uniform. I also have his spats and glengarry (can photograph if of interest)and fragments of his kilt (I believe moths got most of it many years ago). My mother made my Teddy Bear a kilt from it when I was a small boy, a piece of this is now with one of my granddaughters! I used to have his service medals but these were stolen c. 1979 but I didn't notice until sometime after the event.
I have several photos of my grandfather in uniform but none of him wearing full dress uniform with sporran. However, I do have one of my grandmother (Annie Alice Grist nee Rowles) wearing it, which judging from the quality of the photo my grandfather may have carried in his pocket. I attach this. Also I have a photo of my Great-uncle Albert Grist dressed in a child sized Scottish uniform taken during WWI, which I attach (can't make out insignia but not Cameron H). Besides his uncle (my grandfather) two of his brothers also served in 4/Camerons (Joseph Grist and George Grist). I have another photo of Albert in same outfit standing next to his brother Dave, in WWI uniform of RA (can add if of interest)
Hope this of interest
John
Attachment Grandmother Annie Alice Grist small.jpg
Attachment Greatuncle Albert Gristsmall.jpg

John,

Your bio information and additional photos on your grandfather and relatives were read with great interest.  One slight correction that will help you communicaae better on this site: The uniform your grandmother is shown wearing is referred to as "Service Dress."  "Full Dress" was the ceremonial uniform (still worn today only by Guards and Bands) that was worn on Sundays for church parade and for special occasions; for Highland regiments Full Dress would include a scarlet doublet and feather bonnet.

Indeed please do post additional photos of Edward's spats & glengarry plus the picture of Albert and Dave.

Mike

#227 GRUMPY

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:10 PM

"Full Dress" was the ceremonial uniform (still worn today only by Guards and Bands)
to which please add Household Cavalry and King's Troop RHA.

#228 gordon92

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostGRUMPY, on 11 June 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

"Full Dress" was the ceremonial uniform (still worn today only by Guards and Bands)
to which please add Household Cavalry and King's Troop RHA.

Acknowledged.  Thank you.

#229 jjd

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

Further to my earlier posts, I attach
1) Photo of Greatuncles Dave Grist (RA, I think) and Albert Grist (with studio sporran);
and then some of my Grandfather's kit (Edward Rowles 4/Camerons 2537)
2) spats - external;
3) spats - internal, piece from kilt, glengarry (see also avatar).
Very few refns. to spats on BWF; might be of interest to note spats have khaki buttons and vary in underfoot strap both are leather but one has a buckle.
John

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#230 gordon92

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Very interesting items, John.

The glengarry and spats are definitely from the Cameron Highlanders.  Notice that the understraps on the spats are black with khaki buttons (white buttons on white straps); this was the only regiment that had this combination, and the black straps were a regimental modification.

The kilt fragment is perplexing.  It is the Hunting Stuart tartan as worn by the 9th Royal Scots and not the 79th tartan used by the Cameron Highlanders.  Any chance Edward also served with the 9RS at some point?

#231 jjd

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:05 PM

Fairly certain he was never with 9SG. His only other unit , as far as I know, was Lovat's Scouts but his service record is lost and his MCI doesn't mention LS even though he appears to have served with them for 3 years. Possibly may have been misled by my mother on kilt (I would have only been about 5 or 6 when she made the mini-kilt supposedly from my grandfather's).
I know they did keep his kilt as well as the other artefacts. Have changed photo of grandmother to black & white which brings out tartan a little; this would have been the kilt they kept. Also photo of Edward with I think 4/Camerons c. early 1915(he is standing at far right middle row - LCpl with moustache) note how very young the bugler in this group is (sitting in middle). My photos of Edward in kilt show a belt with "S" fastener, what do you make of the belt my grandmother is wearing?
John

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#232 jjd

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:13 PM

Grandfather can be seen in previous post by clicking on photo. Attached one of grandfather & grandmother c. 1914 - 1915. He has "S" belt again
John

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#233 gordon92

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:41 PM

View Postjjd, on 13 June 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Fairly certain he was never with 9SG. His only other unit , as far as I know, was Lovat's Scouts but his service record is lost and his MCI doesn't mention LS even though he appears to have served with them for 3 years. Possibly may have been misled by my mother on kilt (I would have only been about 5 or 6 when she made the mini-kilt supposedly from my grandfather's).
I know they did keep his kilt as well as the other artefacts. Have changed photo of grandmother to black & white which brings out tartan a little; this would have been the kilt they kept. Also photo of Edward with I think 4/Camerons c. early 1915(he is standing at far right middle row - LCpl with moustache) note how very young the bugler in this group is (sitting in middle). My photos of Edward in kilt show a belt with "S" fastener, what do you make of the belt my grandmother is wearing?
John

John,

The belt with the S-fastener is part of what is known as the 1914 leather equipment that was an improvisation because of a shortage of the preferred pattern 1908 webbing equipment.  This belt would have been worn in field service and also for walking out.  The belt your grandmother is wearing is a white buff belt used primarily for parade wear.

Mike

#234 GRUMPY

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Posted Yesterday, 06:53 PM

The bugler is badged as a drummer ........... drummers were trained in drum, bugle and flute duty.