25 replies to this topic

[martinweston46]

My grandfather ALBERT CHARLES WESTON was born on 23 January 1893. According to his medal card he served in the Devonshire Regiment from 3 September 1915 to 13 May 1919. His Regimental Numbers were 2406, 267731. His rank was Corporal later Acting or Assistant Sergeant.  His medal card also says he was awarded the 1914-15 Star, the Allied Victory Medal and the British War Medal, the card says Theatre of War first served in = (3) Egypt.

Although Albert never talked to me or my father about his war service, family tradition has it that he took part in the Battle of the Somme and spent most of his service on the Western Front. Since his medal card does not does not show him as a Private, he may have had Territorial Army Service before the war started.

As his Service Record has not survived (I can’t find it in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 on Ancestry) I do not know what Battalion of the Devonshire Regiment he served in.

Using the above information. Can anyone help me identify his Battalion and Unit and let me know where his unit was during the war?

Any assistance would be most appreciated.

[TEW]

No doubt Dave will be along to give more details. With an entry date of 5/9/1915 to Egypt Cpl. Weston went with either the 2/5th Devons (their arrival date is 17/9/1915) or the 1st Garrison Bn. who arrived in Egypt 27/9/1915. Perhaps as he was an experienced  Cpl. he went ahead of the main body. NB. Just seen in Atkinson's history the 2/5th left Devonport on the 5/9/1915 on SS Ceramic, 28 officers and 695 Other ranks, they were set up in Cairo on the 17/9/1915. So 2/5th is your starting point. They were disbanded in June 1916 so he must have been transfered then.

His 267731 re-numbering in early 1917 then implies the 6th Bn., if so he should have been in Basra at that time although then 6th supposedly remained in Basra for the duration.

TEW

AND...in June 1916 the 26 Officers and 639 men of the 2/5th were divided up between the 1/4th Bn. and the 1/6th in Basra. 150 of the 639 went to the 1/5th in Lahore, 80 to the garrison Bn.

Is he Albert Charles Weston born in Ilsington and living in 1911 at Heathfield with parents Thomas and Annie? If he was a pre-war territorial he was probably at Newton Abbot, not sure of pre-war unit number.

[martinweston46]

Hi TEW

Thanks for the information - yes he is the Albert Charles Weston born in Ilsington and living in 1911 at Heathfield with my great grandparents Thomas and Annie.

I did not know he had been anywhere but the Western Front until I found his medal card. Basra was never mentioned to me, but he did leave a silver pocket watch supposedly of Turkish origin which he probably acquired when he was in Egypt.

I am now beginning to wonder if he was on the Western Front at all

[TEW]

Martin

I'd say at the moment that he was with the 1/6th in Basra from June 1916 to at least the spring of 1917. As he was an acting Sgt. and presumably experienced he may have moved to the 1/5th Bn. They moved to France in May 1918 and remained there for the duration.
TEW

[martinweston46]

Hi again TEW

Do you know what the 2/5th and 1/6th did in the Middle East?

Where they involved in any actions?

[TEW]

Martin,

A quick look through the regimental history seems to show that the 1/6th saw more action than the 2/5th. Far too much to post here!!

I'm assuming you're in the Newton Abbot area, the Regimental History is The Devonshire Regiment, 1914-18, compiled by C.T. Atkinson, Hopefully this LINKwill show you the locations of the book, depends if you're able to travel to the mentioned libraries. Most are reference only, although for £1 I think you could order a loan copy from NA library, possibly even do so online.

It may be wise to try another post requesting a medal roll lookup, this would confirm the battalions he was with. I was also going to check with Aggett's The Bloody Eleventh to find which unit of pre-war territorials he may have been with (assuming he was) I know there was a Newton Abbot Company, but not sure if Chudleigh or Bovey had thier own as well.
TEW

[martinweston46]

Many thanks

[ddycher]

Martin

Tim is right.

Albert Weston joined the 5th Devons in September 1914. He sailed with the 2/5th Devons to Egypt. 2/5th Devons were part of the Force in Egypt effectively as garrison troops. The 2/5th Devons was ordered to be broken up on the 26th April 1916 to feed other Devon TF units in more active fronts, recruting being slow at home at the time. They were formally broken up on the 24th of June. Your grandfather was one of the men allocated to the 1/6th Devons. He was initially renumber 4654 (later renumbered 267731 on the TF renumbering). They sailed from Suez to Basra on the HT Egra. Leaving Suez on the 27th June, arriving at Basra on 3rd July and disembarked on the 4th. The draft remained in Basra for a couple of weeks before joining the 6th Devons in the field on the 23rd and 28th July (Sorry I dont know in which of these your grandfather reached the 6th).

From the men of this 2/5th Devons draft I dont show any subsequently killed in action with the 1/6th Devons although a number of men were to die of sickness both in Mesopotamia and subsequent to being invalided home sickness being prevailant at the time. The draft was a large part of the rebuild of the 1/6th after very heavy casualties in early 1916.

Given his demob date it looks like he served the remainder of the war with the 6th Devons. He would have gone home via Karachi India where they were temporarily held as reserves for the 3rd Afghan War but not utilised. However as Tim states it is possible that he may have been invalided to India however very few of the 2/5th men via the 1/6th did get back to the 5th. My best guess unless you know something different would be that he spent the remainder of the war between Mesopotamia and India with the 1/6th and 2/6th Devons I can send you an overview of their war if it is of interest.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Dave

[TEW]

Martin,

I would suggest a second post in Great War Forum → Documents, photos, art → Look-up, Photo and Document requests → Documents & Records Requests/Look Ups for a medal roll look up. Have a look at a few other requests then post with the references for 2406, 267731 Albert C Weston of Devonshire regt:
15 Star C/2/4 B3-463
BWM & Vict C/2/103 B24-1720
This is the only way to be certain of the battalions he served with. Can’t guarantee someone will look it up but sometimes people reply later.

Incidentally, the 1/5^th, 2/5^th, 1/6^th & 2/6^th were all territorial battalions. The 5^th and 6^th were created in1908 then each divided into first and second line troops Aug-Sept 1914. If Albert was a pre-war territorial, being based in Heathfield he would probably have been with E Company (Newton Abbot) of the 5^th Devons. IF this was the case he may have transferred to the 5^th Devons in Spring 1918 and seen action in France with them.
TEW

[themonsstar]

Medal rolls for the BWM & VM  1915 Star

WO329/871 BWM & VM

WO329/2650 1915 Star

Attached Files

•  2406 Cpl AC.Weston 1915 Star.JPG   75.02K   2 downloads

[themonsstar]

Next 1

Attached Files

•  267731 Asgt A.C.Weston.JPG   93.43K   2 downloads

[TEW]

I'll wait for Dave to interpret the rolls but I think it means he was 2/5th then 1/6th then 5th Devons in Spring 1918 for the duration? In which case my Grandfather was his CO from end of August 1919 to April 1919.
TEW

Should have said thanks to themonsstar for putting those up so quickly

Edited by TEW, 09 June 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[ddycher]

Martin / Tim

Whilst I dont have his actual attestation. Alberts original 2406 number means he attested at Newton Abbot on the 15th September 1914 under Robert Vicary (then JP for Devon) for service with the 5^th Devons. So far I have not been able to find any ref to earlier service. Will post if I find anything.

Regards
Dave

[martinweston46]

Gentlemen

Apologies for not being around yesterday to check the replies to my post and to say a BIG THANK YOU to you all for the massive amount of information you have given me in such a short time. I am particularly grateful to themonsstar for the medal roll images.

I am stunned by both the depth of your knowledge and the generosity that you have shown in sharing it.

I would be most interested in seeing the war overview for the 1/6th and 2/6th Devons that Dave mentioned.

I hope you will not mind if I post some follow up questions once I have had time to absorb everything you have found on my behalf.

If any of you would care to name an armed forces charity that I could make a donation to in order to express my thanks in a more concrete way, I am more than happy to do this.

[ddycher]

Martin

Have sent you a quick synopsis via a PM. Let me know if you dont receive it.

Re. sharing - this is what the forum is all about. Would be more than happy to answer any further queries if I can.

Regards
Dave

[themonsstar]

I would be happy with the National Gulf Veterans & Families Association :

http://www.ngvfa.org.uk/default.asp


Or Combat Stress

Cheers Roy

[martinweston46]

I have now had time to absorb the information you were all kind enough to share
and would like to post the following follow up enquiry.

Albert Charles Weston had two brothers in law who also served in the Devonshire
Regiment in the First World War.

William Charles Bowden, served as a Private and later a Lance Corporal in the
Devonshire Regiment from 6 November 1914 to 2 June 1915? In addition to the
normal medals, he was awarded the Silver War Badge (List c/307), Regimental
Number: 8879. I do not know what some of the information on his card means.
The “Theatre of war first served in” field on his medal card is blank,
the “Date of entry therin” field reads 6 November 1914.

William Thomas Hayman, served as a Private and later a Sergeant in the
Devonshire Regiment from 1916 to 1918? Regiment Regimental Number: 1809
240377. The “Theatre of war first served in” field on his medal card is blank, as is
the “Date of entry therin” field.
Medals: British War Medal 1914-1918, Victory Medal 1914-1918, Territorial
Forces War Medal. He did not get the 1914-1915 Star.

Using the above information. Can anyone help me identify which Battalion
William Charles Bowden and William Thomas Hayman served in? I have often
wondered if they all served together in the same unit with my grandfather.

I have now acquired a copy of the Regimental History by C.T. Atkinson as
suggested by Tim, it has never been on the selves at my local library, but they
sent me an email saying was ready for collection the day after I requested it,
which must be some sort of record.

Many thanks.

[TEW]

Martin,
For W.C. Bowden his date of entry = 2nd Battalion (also noted on his medal card). His SWB entry on ancestry shows he enlisted 8/12/1908, discharged (wound) 12/6/1915. His SWB number was 105706. Should have a pre-war record at findmypast but can't seem to find one.

Hayman ; his 240377 equates to the 5th Bn. circa spring of 1917. Perhaps he joined the 5th with number 1809 in 1916?

Sure more will follow
TEW

[ddycher]

Martin

Off the bat I can tell you that William Hayman was a pre-war 5th Devon who joined in early June 1914. Will have a dig and see what more I can find.
Cant add to Tim's notes above on William Bowden.

Regards
Dave

[martinweston46]

Thank you both

[ddycher]

Martin

William Haymans service number and and attestation date put him either at Devonport (D Coy) or Torquay (F Coy). Do you have any more detail on him to be able to confirm ?

Regards
Dave

[martinweston46]

Hi Dave - I don't know if this helps
Born Dec 1876 Lympstone Exeter Devon
Occupation 1911 Tailors assistant
Residence 1911 3 Saint James Terrace Well Street Exeter Devon
Religion Wesleyan
Wife Alice Rose Hayman (Nee Weston) I think they were seperated at the time of the 1911 Census. Alice proved his will when he died in 1929.

[ddycher]

Sorry Martin but I have drawn a blank so far.

I have a hole in my records between 1803 of 26th May (Torquay) and 1813 of 13th June (Devonport). It is entirely possible that there was a Totnes attestation group between these numbers which I had not come across before, in which case William Hayman may fit there.

The Exeter connection doesn't help as that would have put him in the 4th Devons pre-war and we know this was not the case. It would be interesting to know when he moved from Exeter.

Will keep looking and let you know if I find anything.

Regards
Dave

[martinweston46]

Hi Dave
He is listed in Exeter in the Census in 1881 and 1891
He married Alice in Pontypridd in 1900
In the 1901 Census they are living in High Street Newmarket St Mary Suffolk
He and Alice both died at 16 Manor Terrace Paignton Devon, which I thimk used to be in the Totnes registration district

[ddycher]

Sorry Martin am not able to make any further connections here.

If I do come across anything in the future I will post here.

Good luck with your research.

regards
Dave