39 replies to this topic

[khaki]

What can anyone tell me about the above medal? who made them?, were they official or unofficial? If unofficial what was the organisation behind the medal?

thanks
khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

khaki, on 13 June 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

What can anyone tell me about the above medal? who made them?, were they official or unofficial? If unofficial what was the organisation behind the medal?

thanks
khaki

Khaki,

" Bronze cross pattée, the arms with beaded borders after the Prussian Iron Cross, with crossed swords between the arms and with loop for ribbon suspension; the face with a crowned naval anchor imposed on the letter ‘W’ (for Kaiser Wilhelm II) within a laurel wreath, the upper, lower, left and right arms inscribed ‘Zur See’ ‘Im Felde’ ‘Unbe-’ ‘siegt’ respectively (at sea, in the field, undefeated); the reverse with the Imperial German Naval War Ensign (Reichkriegsflagge) within a laurel wreath, the Flemish lion on the upper arm, the lower arm dated ‘1914/18’, the left and right arms inscribed ‘Marine’ ‘Korps’; on original ribbon with original gilt bronze ‘SOMME’ bar. The Cross was instituted on 13 September 1921 by Admiral Ludwig von Schröder, the former commander of the Marinekorps Flandern and its Kameradschaftsverband (Veterans‘ Association) in honour and remembrance of former members of the Corps. In August 1914 the German High Command decided to create an expeditionary force of Marines in Flanders. By November 1914, two divisions were in place, to be joined by a third in June 1917. The Corps was involved in heavy fighting, demonstrated by the ten bars associated with the medal. Althought the Somme is not in Flanders, members of the Marine Corps were involved in battles there. The medal was officially suppressed in 1934 with the issue of the Cross of Honour of the World War (Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges), popularly known as the Hindenburg Cross but the Flanders Cross was widely worn after this date with tacit approval. In all only some thirty thousand Crosses were issued and it is now quite hard to find. "

Regards,
LF

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•  Flanders X.jpg   16.66K   0 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Medal reverse.

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•  Flanders X reverse.jpg   21.15K   1 downloads

[khaki]

Thank you LF,

as usual a thorough and competent reply.

regards
khaki

[somme visitor]

Lancashire Fusilier,

I also have one of these medals but with the bar "Flandernschlacht". It was given to me by Sebastian Laudan many years ago after we enjoyed a trip together (with others) to the Verdun area.
We kept in touch for a while and a sent him a trio to the Glouscesters which he responded to with this medal which I have always treasured. Like Khaki though I was not sure whether it was an official medal or not as I never seemed to see it listed on any dealers list.
I am very pleased to see your reply and full explanation of what the medal is, like Khaki I am gratefull to finally understand what I have.

PS if anyone reading this has Sebastian Lauden's email address I would be pleased to know it. We met long before tinternet was thought of and I am sure he must have retired from the Police by now,

Richard

[Lancashire Fusilier]

somme visitor, on 28 June 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Lancashire Fusilier,

I also have one of these medals but with the bar "Flandernschlacht". It was given to me by Sebastian Laudan many years ago after we enjoyed a trip together (with others) to the Verdun area.
Richard

A very nice and scarce keepsake.
Regards,
LF

[robins2]

Mine has two bars  YSER & FLANDERNSCHLACHT




regards

Bob R.

[khaki]

So far we have somme, flandernschlacht, yser and I have durchbruchsschlacht, I wonder what the other six are?

regards

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

khaki, on 29 June 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

So far we have somme, flandernschlacht, yser and I have durchbruchsschlacht, I wonder what the other six are?

regards

khaki

khaki,
The 10 Bandspangen ( Bars ) for the Flandernkreuz are :

Antwerpen

Durchbruchsschlacht

Durchbruchsschlacht 1918

Flandernschlacht

Flandernschlacht 1917

Luftkrieg

Seekrieg

Somme

Ypern

Yser  

Regards,
LF

[robins2]

do you happen to know what the criteria was to obtain the bars??  30 days/60 days??? service

also the Luftkrieg & Seekrieg  meaning I prusume Air & Sea War  would they be for service at sea & in the air??

regrds

Bob R.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Medal grouping showing the Flandernkreuz with 3 of the 10 bars - Luftkrieg - Ypern - Yser.
LF

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•  Flanders 3 bars.jpg   51.52K   0 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Another medal grouping with the Flandernkreuz and 5 bars - Somme - Ypern - Yser - Flandernschlacht 1917 - Durchbruschsslacht.

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•  Flanders 4 bars.jpg   61.35K   0 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

More Flandernkreuz bars including Seekrieg, Luftkrieg and Flandernschlacht.
LF

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•  Flanders seekrieg.jpg   63.32K   0 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

More groupings including Flandernkreuz with Antwerpen Bar.
LF

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•  Flanders Antwerpen.jpg   78.45K   1 downloads

[khaki]

Wow, great stuff LF, quick question, what is the durchbruchtsschlacht for, if there is another for 1918?

regards
khaki

[robins2]

roughly translated I believe it says Breakout Battle, I'm sure someone can explain better

regards

Bob R.

[khaki]

robins2, on 30 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

roughly translated I believe it says Breakout Battle, I'm sure someone can explain better

regards

Bob R.

Thanks Bob,
I have the variety that has durchbruchsschlact without the date, I thought that it related to the March offensive 1918 but now that I have seen the bar with 1918, I am unsure what it relates to unless it is a variation of the same thing.
regards
khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

khaki, on 30 June 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

quick question, what is the durchbruchtsschlacht for, if there is another for 1918?

regards
khaki

khaki,
As Bob R has said, this ' Durchbruchsschlacht 1918 ' Bar relates to the Durchbruchsschlacht (breakthrough battle) 21-23 March 1918, at Momby-Cambrai, France.
Regards,
LF

[khaki]

Lancashire Fusilier, on 30 June 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

khaki,
As Bob R has said, this Bar relates to the Durchbruchsschlacht (breakthrough battle) 21-23 March 1918, at Momby-Cambrai, France.
Regards,
LF

Sorry Guy's I am a bit slow today, so both 'breakthrough' bars relate to the same thing, ie., the March 1918 offensive.

thanks

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

khaki, on 30 June 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Sorry Guy's I am a bit slow today, so both 'breakthrough' bars relate to the same thing, ie., the March 1918 offensive.

thanks

khaki

The two Bars, one without a date, and one with a date added, relate to specific battles. As with the Flandernschlacht Bars.
The first Bar ' Flandernschlacht ' relates to battles fought in Flanders during the period 20th October 1914 to 18 November 1914, and the ' Flandernschlacht 1917 ' Bar relates to battles fought in Flanders during the period 31st July 1917 to 6th November 1917.

The ' Durchbruchsschlacht 1918 ' Bar relates to the (breakthrough battle) fought 21-23 March 1918, at Momby-Cambrai, France.
The ' Durchbruchsschlacht ' Bar relates to an earlier period.

Regards,
LF

[khaki]

Thanks LF,

I got it this time

regards
khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Here is a photograph postcard sent by a German soldier taking part in ' Flandernschlacht 1917 ' which for him, was the period 28 August, 1917 - 24 September, 1917, this falls within the Flandernschlacht 1917 Bar period of 31st July 1917 to 6th November 1917.
LF

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•  Flandernschlacht pv smaller.jpg   32.65K   5 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

robins2, on 29 June 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

do you happen to know what the criteria was to obtain the bars??  30 days/60 days??? service

also the Luftkrieg & Seekrieg  meaning I prusume Air & Sea War  would they be for service at sea & in the air??

regrds

Bob R.

Bob,
I can find no reference detailing specific term criteria for this award, as it seems to have been very informally controlled award. The general reference is :-
" This was a post WWI decoration that was awarded to men who fought for the Navy in Flanders during WWI. It was awarded to men who were assigned to the Marine-Infanterie, the Marine-Artillerie, and men from the Marine Jastas that flew in support of Navy troops."
I assume, that any man from any of those Marine services, who fought on the Western Front was able to claim the award, and the Bars were specific to the different battles/engagements detailed on the 10 Bars and would have beem awarded to those taking part in those specific actions.
Regards,
LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Wartime German postcard :
German Seesoldaten ( Marines ) and Matrosen taking trenches held by Belgian and British troops.

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•  Marine Flandern painting.jpg   51.49K   0 downloads

[Lancashire Fusilier]

khaki,
Here are some more Flandernkreuz Spangen, including ' Durchbruchsschlacht 1918 ', which now gives us photographs of all 10 Bars.
LF

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•  Durschbruschlachy 1918.jpg   77.25K   0 downloads