185 replies to this topic

[magscotabroad]

Hi everyone, I thought this could be an interesting new thread, I drive a lot around the Nord Pas de Calasi villages, and sometimes stop to have a look at the French war monuments in the small towns and villages, and thought it could be quite interesting to show to the Forum.
This is the first of what I hope to be many, as very often they are different in each location.

Today's is from Ferin just outside Douai.
Hope this is of interest, I tried to see if it had already been done on the Forum, but could not find any previous threads. Please feel free to add to the list.
br
mags


i.







could someone please remove the link for me, I don't  know how it got there
thanks mags

[brucehubbard]

When you visit Festubert, have a look at the right hand side of the war memorial.
Engraved there is something I have yet to see anyone else, for it included words to the effect to remember the British heroes who also died for France.
Has anyone seen anything like that on any other French war memorial?

Bruce

[magscotabroad]

Hi Bruce,
will do so next time I'm thru there, and will try to take some photos, sorry for the quality, but I'm not the world's best photographer, and I just bought the new camera yesterday

[Hedley Malloch]

One big difference is that on French civic war memorials there is no reference to God.  The commemorated are 'morts pour la France' - and that's it.  God does not get a mention.  This reflects the absolute seperation between Church and State in French life.  There is no mention of having died for the head of state  either.

Many of the most interesting French memorials are found in Alsace where the memorials have to reflect that soldiers from the same village - and often from the same family- fought in both the French and German armies.

[Dragon]

Hedley Malloch, on 14 June 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Many of the most interesting French memorials are found in Alsace where the memorials have to reflect that soldiers from the same village - and often from the same family- fought in both the French and German armies.

I agree. I have also found a lot of memorials in Alsace show women as mothers, wives and sisters grieving for their menfolk. A random sample:

Westhalten:



Guebwiller:



Need to look up this location:



Gwyn

[Dragon]

Alsace continued. Bennwihr. WW1 memorial survives in village obliterated in WW2. (My postcard.)



The memorial survives. (Scan of an old photo of  mine, possibly 2003):

[Dragon]

Memorials in Alsace and the Vosges sometimes have included references to the liberation of Alsace and Lorraine from German annexation. The German eagle and the frontier posts may be depicted crushed and broken.

St-Dié (my card):




And a reminder that a young man is French (ie not German) in Guebwiller:



In Nancy, remembering the Occupation, Alsace and Lorraine comfort each other:

[Dragon]

Going back to Hedley's point that men were obliged to fight on both sides, Ribeauvillé commemorates the malgrés-nous. (This is a WW2 memorial.)

[seadog]

At Notre Dame De Lorette

[seadog]

At Flabas on the Verdun Front

[seadog]

The Andre Maginot Memorial - Verdun

[seadog]

The Ruined Village of Vauquois

[seadog]

Detail from the Vauquois Memorial

[CarylW]

Some interesting monuments and memorials shown so far. I usually try to photo the local memorials travelling through various places in France. Often in small villages there is only a fairly bleak looking stone monument but with so many names engraved I often wonder how the community survived afterwards.

This one in Beaune is one of the larger more ornate ones I've photographed and the sleeping lion near the base intrigued me. Would there be any significance to this?





Caryl

[Hedley Malloch]

brucehubbard, on 13 June 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

When you visit Festubert, have a look at the right hand side of the war memorial.
Engraved there is something I have yet to see anyone else, for it included words to the effect to remember the British heroes who also died for France.
Has anyone seen anything like that on any other French war memorial?

Bruce

The Guise memorial contains the names of the Iron 12.

[Siege Gunner]

Hedley Malloch, on 14 June 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

One big difference is that on French civic war memorials there is no reference to God.  The commemorated are 'morts pour la France' - and that's it.  God does not get a mention.  This reflects the absolute seperation between Church and State in French life.

Nevertheless, many French war memorials stand in the shadow of the village church.

[CarylW]

Siege Gunner, on 14 June 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Nevertheless, many French war memorials stand in the shadow of the village church.

Or inside the church, like this one in Grignan



Caryl

[CarylW]

And one outside the church at Terramesnil. The only one I've come across (so far) that incorporated shell cases into the memorial area



Caryl

[magscotabroad]

this one is of Rumaucourt, next to ecourt st quentin

[magscotabroad]

Here is Esquerchin's monument, just a few miles outside Douai, as you can see they also used shells to line the permeter of the monument
br
mags

[Hedley Malloch]

CarylW, on 14 June 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Or inside the church, like this one in Grignan



Caryl

True - but they are never required to have died for God; still less some politician who has made it to the top of the greasy pole.

[Hedley Malloch]

Back to Alsace war memorials.  This one in Rosheim is one of the most complex and interesting memorials I have ever seen.  Of the three figures.  In the centre there is Jeanne d'Arc who is presiding over some type of reconciliation between the two figures, one on either side.  Her hands rest on their shoullders The man on the left is wearing a casque Adrien so he is clearly a French soldier.

The one on the right is more complex.  At his feet is a pickelhauben, which indicates that he is (or was) in the German army.  The helmet is on the ground.  Does this indicated death or defeat - or both?  He is pointing to his heart which is represented by some sort of emblem, possibly signifying Alsace.  It as if he was saying, 'I was in the German Army, but at heart I am from Alsace.'  The French soldier extends to him the hand of friendship.

Most Alsace memorials are quite coy about the tensions which must have existed in their communities before and after the war, between those who favoured Germany and those who joined the French army.  But this one is quite explicit.

 Rosheim War memorial (1).JPG for upload.JPG 2.JPG   88.8K   2 downloads

[Dragon]

Illustrating the tensions, the Monument aux Morts, Guebwiller, pictured here before the WW2 additions
- with the text "Tu es français souviens t'en" much more prominent than in the post WW2 alterations -





has to my eyes a similarity with the woman's action in this patriotic postcard





The theme 'Sous l'uniforme allemand - son cœur est français' is common in cards of the Great War era. This one features a family distraught because "Le pauvre enfant est soldat allemand!"




(All my cards.) I include these cards to illustrate that imagery on the Monuments aux Morts may cross with imagery in patriotic material of the wartime period.


Hedley - that is a superb, complex memorial. I shall try to visit it very shortly. I believe the emblem on his chest is the little red, white and blue rosette which the women are pinning on the men in my illustrations above. Though the tricolore rosette dates from the Revolution, I think its popularity in Alsace strengthened after the 1870 annexation; it could be worn, and it's common in patriotic material such as postcards and posters throughout the period.

Gwyn

Edited by Dragon, 15 June 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[magscotabroad]

Here is the monument in Cuincy next to Douai,  with pictures of many of the soldiers on the monument, as many families still live in the same village, a lot of the villages have tried to put a face to the name, which I think is very moving
br
mags

[magscotabroad]