15 replies to this topic

[wulsten]

Can anyone help with advice to gain any info relating to an identity tag recently located, anything at all appreciated, Geoff

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[magscotabroad]

Hi, read your thread and googled the name, found this French link where you will find a victor neveux

http://44rit.free.fr...s/citations.htm

NEVEUX Victor - Caporal à la 7e Cie

"Etant en poste d'écoute à l'extrême avancée de notre ligne soumise depuis vingt-quatre heures à un bombardement sans précédent, a fait prisonnier de sa main, en le saisissant à la gorge, un soldat ennemi éclaireur d'une forte patrouille qui s'approchait de nos réseaux. A fait ensuite preuve de sang-froid en obligeant la patrouille ennemie à se retirer".

NEVEUX Victor Corporal in the seventh Company

Was at a listening post at an advanced point of our line, was subjected to twenty four hours of unheard of bombing, caught an enemy soldier scout by the throat, who was the forerunner of a large enemy patrol who were approaching our networks. Then he showed proof of courage by obliging the enemy patrol to withdraw.

could this be your man?

br

mags

[wulsten]

Mags, thats certainly a start, could it be him pity that there are no details relating to Regt numbers etc, Geoff

[magscotabroad]

Hi also found this on this link, but do not know if it is the same guy.



NEVEUX Victor Émile
Caporal
Origine : 93 Drancy /et/ 75 Paris 9° arrondissement (Né le 22/1/1877)
N° A-172536  
44e R.I.T.
27/04/1917   Tué à l'ennemi
A.P. de Jouy
> Jouy
>> Aizy-Jouy
>>> Chemin des Dames
>>>> Aisne
this is the original link

http://www.memorial-...renom&debut=100

br mags

[CROONAERT]

wulsten, on 15 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Can anyone help with advice to gain any info relating to an identity tag recently located, anything at all appreciated, Geoff

You're looking for a man who was 53/54 years of age at the outbreak of war and who had been released from his terms of military service. Quite unlikely that he actually even served during the war. If he did, he definately doesn't appear on the casualty rolls anyway.

Dave

[wulsten]

Dave, thanks for that, any clues as to numbering and deductions on age etc, Geoff

[bmac]

Cpl Victor Emile Neveux was 40 when he died, having been born on 22nd January 1877.  He won the Croix de Guerre avec palmes so is, presumably, the man whose exploit is listed above.  No known grave but remembered on the Drancy Monument aux Morts.  Neither of his numbers, however, are the same as on the tag.  On the 27th April 1917 the 44e RIT was at Jouy where it came under bombardment by tear gas shells and 210 mm howitzer shells, Between 9 and 10 a.m. there was a new bombardment of Jouy and a shell fell on a dugout occupied by a section of the 7th Company.  6 men were killed and 7 wounded.  Victor was amongst the dead.  Jouy I believe may be Aizy Jouy, Aisne Dept., north east of Soissons as the war diary also mentions Vailly which is a few miles to the south.

P.S.  This is confirmed by the history of the 44e RIT on the web site which has the citation.

[CROONAERT]

wulsten, on 16 June 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Dave, thanks for that, any clues as to numbering and deductions on age etc, Geoff

The original owner of the tag was born in the Meuse department at some point between October 1860 and October 1861 (or had resided in the area for at least 6 months prior to original enlistment). He was called up for his compulsory military service in September/October/November 1881 and served in the active army until 1886. He then transferred to the reserve originally until 1890, but extended to 1892. In July 1892, a further 3 years was added and ,so, he would have actually remained on the reserve until 1895. This was then followed by a period of 6 years in the Territorials - taking us to 1901 - followed by 6 years on the territorial army reserve. He was completely released from all military obligations at the end of 1907... after a total of 26 years service.

There was no compulsory call-up of the Class of 1881 during the Great War and, so, if (and , to be honest, its very doubtful) he served in any capacity during 1914-18, it was on a purely voluntary basis (earliest 'general mobilisation' class was the Class of 1888 who were called between March and August of 1916, but ex-soldiers with specialist skills/trades of the Class of 1887 also recieved the call up). The man being discussed who was killed in 1917 certainly isn't the original owner of your tag anyway!

if you need an educated guess at (one of his) regiment then, judging by details supplied on the disc, I'd definately go for the 151e R.I.

hope that helps!

Dave

[CROONAERT]

Geoff...

A further point of (possible) interest to you is that your tag is of the original pattern authorised in October 1881 (but will be a later re-issue or altered tag as its marked up in the post-October 1883 pattern). Its actually quite a rare pattern as supplies of the original 1881 tags dwindled into the mid-1880s. Your man would actually have been one of the first men to ever recieve an identity disc in the French Army!

Dave

[bmac]

Dave,

According to MemorialGenweb 151 RI was reformed at Belfort in 1887, having been disolved in 1814, and was part of the Verdun garrison from 1888.  Does this fit in with this man?

Bill

[wulsten]

Dave/Bill, i stand in awe of your deductions, i would never have guessed a response from a little disk, would knowledge extend to locating him at Verdun as the last post from Bill, Geoff

[CROONAERT]

bmac, on 17 June 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Does this fit in with this man?

Yes, certainly for part of his active army reserve service anyway. His original regiment - I cannot even guess at, other than to say that he was in an infantry regiment numbered somewhere between 11 and 90! (there is a slim chance that he served in a regiment other than infantry, but his matricule au recrutement gives the impression that he was of this particular branch). Unfortunately, though it is relatively easy to find detail of the French Army of 1870/71 and even easier for 1914/18, the in-between period can be a bit of a headache (probably even more so if you were a serving soldier in the French Army of that time due to reforms,changes, etc (of which there were at least three during Nevaux's service)... you could have started out having to give up 20 years of your life (full and part time) and ,simply due to what year you were born in, ended up doing 30!).

Dave

[bmac]

It is difficult to comprehend the bureaucracy and costs involved in maintaining standing and reserve units of the size of these European mainland armies let along the economic costs of removing these men from the jobs for training and exercises.  No wonder everyone wanted an Empire to exploit!

[CROONAERT]

CROONAERT, on 20 June 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

though it is relatively easy to find detail of the French Army of 1870/71 and even easier for 1914/18, the in-between period can be a bit of a headache

Geoff,

if interested in this in-between period, I think that the most accessable book on the subject in English is a book entitled 'The March to the Marne - the French Army 1871-1914' by Douglas Porch (1981). Not exactly the most exciting bedtime reading book, but it contains some handy and useful snippets of info. so is well worth a 'dip' (though, to me, its what has actually been left out that would have been the most use!)... There are others, of course, but i think that's the easiest to obtain (I think its even available for free download in PDF somewhere on the www).

Dave

[CROONAERT]

bmac, on 20 June 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

No wonder everyone wanted an Empire to exploit!

Funny you should mention that... especially when you consider that, in 1936, total military commitment for a Frenchman was to be 29 years. By 1970, this had dropped to 15 years and became age limited - the shortest term of compulsory military service since 1872. Coincidence?

[wulsten]

Dave/Bill, once again many thanks, you may have got me on a new interest, Geoff