24 replies to this topic

[Rory14]

Dear Members

I wonder If there is any kind soul out there who has the War Diary for the 2nd KRRC, for the period September/October 1918. I have the diaries from August 1914-December 1916, but am interested in helping a friend fill in some gaps about a relative killed in September 1918 with this battalion.

Many thanks

Rory

[Graeme Clarke]

Hi

I have the below for september 1918 up to the 19th

September 1918

The month was one of almost continuous fighting for the 2^nd KRRC.

1
Passed day in billets in Arras. Proceeded to the line in the evening, and moved into reserve for an attack carried out by the Canadian Division.
2
The Canadians moved at dawn; the Battalion followed up in artillery formation about 4 miles behind. Towards evening, we halted 1000 yards in front of VIS-en-ARTOIS. Harrassing fire fell on the Battalion area and one Lewis Gun team was knocked out completely.
3
Orders received to stand-to at 1am. The CO and Company commanders reconnoitred areas north of the Cambrai road, occupied by a Battalion of the Essex Regiment. We are holding the Sensee River, on the left flank of the attack. Meanwhile, the Battalion began to advance with the intention of wheeling left into the valley in front of DURY. But orders came to return to original positions. Very heavy enemy shelling. Marched through ETERPIGNY, where we picked up our guides. From this point, the Companies moved to relieve the Essex in an area south east of ETAING.
4
At 3am we began to advance again. There was a heavy HE barrage but very few casualties and by dawn we were in position of the DURY-? Road, throwing out sentry groups on the forward slopes of the Sensee valley. B and half of D Company moved to the village of L’ECLUSE. The rest were distributed in depth, and settled down by dawn.
5
Fairly quiet, sunny and delightful. In the evening, a patrol reached the first houses in TORQUENILLES, with no opposition.
6
Heavy shelling.
7
Relieved by the 13^th Londons at 9pm. Moved in column down the main road to Dury and then along a track to the Cambrai road. Picked up the battalion cookers at Picharts Factory. Shelled at 4am. Hot tea, then moved by bus to HERMAVILLE, arriving at 6am on 8^th.
10
Moved off at 9am and marched a few miles to ACQU. Entrained at noon, moved off eventually at 2.15pm, arrived at GUILLANCOURT and then marched to PROYART.
12
Rained all day. Too wet for parades.
13
Moved by bus to ATHIES, and billeted in cellars and nissen huts.
14
Moved by road to Fox Copse. Spent rest of the day making shelters.
15
Sunday Church parades, and inspection of fighting order in the morning. The CO, Adjutant and Company commanders went to VERMAND to reconnoitre. A very fine day. At 8.30pm we moved out across country through TERTRY to a wood east of COURLANCOURT, where the Battalion spent the night in dugouts. Slight shelling.
16
The morning was spent in preparations. Orders for the attack were read out. The Battalion moved up at 8pm. Storm during the night.
17
2/Lt Drapkin joined the Battalion. 2 OR wounded. Bn occupied in making final arrangements for tomorrows attack. Bn HQ moved up soon after dusk to MAISSEMY.
18
BY 4.30am the Battalion was formed up ready for the attack. The Bn was attacking on a front of about 800 yards, which gradually narrowed down to about 500 yards at the final objective – area intended from the impassible marsh ground of the River Omignon on the left, to the road running north east from Maissemy to BERTHACOURT. The 2/Sussex wereon our left and the 1/Cameron Highlanders on our right. Our first objective was an enemy trench system along the high ground in M13a (Half way between Maissemy and Berthacourt). The second and final objective was Berthacourt. There was a further objective for the exploiting of success but this was not attempted on account of the Bns on our right being held up. Zero was at 5.20am and the Battalion moved forward. A Company under Capt.Barnes MC in front, with B Company under 2/Lt Cunningham MM supporting the right half of A. C Company under Capt.Cook MC supported the laft half of A. D Company under 2/Lt Cotton was in Battalion reserve. The morning was very wet and unpleasant but the weather changed up towards noon. Prisoners soon began to come in but news was difficult to get on account of the heavy Scotch mist which hung thickly in the valleys and thus prevented any visual signalling or direct observation of the attack. The Colonel went forward and got in touch with the Company commanders of C and B Coys, and learned that the Bn was held up by MGs on the left and right flanks. C Company was ordered to work around the left flank, and B Company, together with a portion of the left Company of the Camerons were to work round the right, while A Company held the MGs in front. This worked very well and it was mostly through the splendid leadershipof 2/Lt Cunningham that the position was turned. He took charge of the whole situation on the right, and himself dealt with the crew of an enemy gun. All this caused considerable delay and as it was not till about 9.45am that the position was turned it was discovered that our barrage had gone far ahead. However without the aid of the barrage the Bn pushed forward quickly, C on the left, A (now commanded by 2/Lt Nugent-Head, Capt.Barnes having been seriously wounded) in the centre and B on the right. D was still in full strength and in reserve. They fought their way through the village of Berthacourt to the eastern outskirts and finally consolidated there, throwing out sentry groups in front of the main line of resistance. Throughout the operations enemey shellingwas practically negligible and most of the opposition was from MGs. Battalion HQ took up a position in a half-dug trench just short of the village, from which an extensive view could be obtained of the country beyond. We had been told to expect a counter-attack from PONTRUET, a village 500 yards east of Berthaucourt, and sure enough much movement in the shape of small groups of men was observed working forward from that village at about 4.45pm. WE had a telephone line back to Brigade which was laid as we advanced and our artillery liaison officer was able to get back to his Brigade and within a few minutes an excellent barrage of shrapnel and HE was put down in the area where movement was seen, with the results that the counter attack failed to develop. The Colonel had been hit in the foot earlier in the day and was eventually evacuated, Major Butler taking his place.2/Lt F.A.Simonds joined the Battalion,with 1 OR.2/Lts Eldridge, Elmhurst, Best killed.Capt. Barnes, Lt Chambers, 2/Lts Winter, Lister wounded.23 OR killed, 6 missing, 95 OR wounded.

19
We had a counter preparation barrage just before dawn. Lt Chambers came up. The enemy attempted at 3pm to bomb down a communication trench on the extreme right but was stopped by counter bombing. Unfortunately both Lt Chambers and 2/Lt Cunningham were wounded during this minor operation and the latter afterwards died of wounds. 2/Lt Kiddle took over B Company temporarily. A small fighting patrol went out from D Company that night and proceeded down the main road towards Pontruet. They bumped into a strongly-held enemy post and 2/Lt Marlow who was leading was never seen again. Enemy artillery did a considerable amount of harassing fire round Bn HQ and left the front Companies alone. We had a counter preparation barrage that evening as well. That evening Bn HQ was moved back about 300 yards to the trench which formed our first objective, as they had suffered several casualties in their former positions.2/Lt Cunningham MM died of wounds.2/Lt Marlow missing.2 ORs killed, and 13 wounded.

From the LLT some time ago

Regards,

Graeme

[Rory14]

Many thanks Graeme - this will be really helpful - he was killled or died of wounds on the 2nd September

[Graeme Clarke]

Hi

According to SDGW there were 3 deaths this date, Macdowel, Poplestone and Taggart - all 'killed in action', none 'died of wounds'.

Presumably the Lewis gun team mentioned above.

Regards,

Graeme

[Colin W Taylor]

Rory

I don't know if it will be of any help but there is a book called - Unversed in Arms by Pelham Donovan Ravenscroft who was the Lewis Gun officer for 2nd KRRC. I haven't access to my copy as I'm 'in faraway places' but I'll be back home next week with luck and will see if it mentions any further detail. If you can't wait you can probably pick one up on ebay or abebooks relatively cheaply.

I hope that's of help.

Kind Regards

Colin

[Rory14]

Hi Graeme

Yes the soldier was William Macdowall - I did not know that he was a member of a Lewis Gun team - though from the diary entry above, if they were the only casualties that day, then he would have to have been.

Many thanks

Rory

Hi Colin

Thanks for the tip - I do have the book in my office, I shall consult it immediately,

Cheers

Rory

[goldsrobin]

Hello Rory,
I wonder whether you may be able to help me with some information about 2KRRC in 1914 at Cuinchy? The battalion diary of 2 Royal Sussex for 31 Dec 1914 states:
"KR Rifles were bombed out of their observation post and machine gun emplacement on (canal) embankment. Counter attack was made by our B Coy at 10.00pm. B Coy was not strong enough to retake this ground and was reinforced by 3 companies Scots Guards and two companies L N Lancs.Ground was then easily retaken but we were driven back again by heavy cross and rifle fire. A new line was occupied and dug in."

In this engagement my great uncle was killed. Do you have an account of this day with, perhaps, a sketchmap to show the OP and gun emplacement? I am preparing to walk and cycle over their route, next year.

Many thanks in advance.

Robin

[goldsrobin]

Hello Rory,
I wonder whether you are able to help with this request? I've posted again to get this up the list. Apologies if you have already seen it.

Many thanks

Robin

[Rory14]

Hi Robin

The 2KRRC diary entry for 31st Dcember states 'In the afternoon the enemy started bombing our left trenches from behind Railway Embankment with large Minenwerfers, also enfilading from E with shrapnel. Our observation and machine gun posts on Embankment also heavily bombed and being attacked about 3.15pm, enemy succeeded in occupying them. A party of N Lancs and Sussex 140 strong sent up counter attacked at 10pm but failed to retake positions.'

Sadly no sketch map or reference accompanies this extract, however an entry for the 28th December states that their line extended from South of the Beuvry La Bassee road on the right to the canal on the left.

I hope this helps in a small way - and good luck with the visit.

Rory

[Chris_Baker]

It would be worth looking at the brigade and divisional HQ diaries. They often have more/better maps, orders and reports than the battalions.

[goldsrobin]

Thanks Rory. That fits with Royal Sussex Diary. But they also indicated that KRRC were echloned about 300 yds forward of their line, on the south of the canal and I was hoping that perhaps you might have been able to clarify the KRRC line with respect, for example, to the Brickstacks.

However, your entry suggests that the 'embankment' referred to was the railway rather than the canal. That is useful. Perhaps I will have to reconsider the B Company counter attack's objective.

Many thanks.

Robin

[goldsrobin]

Chris,
Thanks for that suggestion. I was beginning to turn my mind to the 2 Bde Diary. I haven't searched for that and so do not yet know where it is held. Do you know where that and 1 Div Diary are?

Best wishes

Robin

[Chris_Baker]

All at the National Archives. 2 Bde is WO95/1267 and 1 Div HQ is WO95/1227.

[goldsrobin]

Thanks Chris. Looking forward to that visit. May bring it forward a bit.

Robin

[Rory14]

Robin - the extract I took was straight from 2KRRC section of the 2nd Brigade Diary. I couldnt find anything in the diary with a map I am afraid. The extract from the N. Lancs diary of the same day also mentions it as a Railway Embankment - hope that helps.

Rory

[goldsrobin]

I wonder if any of the knowledegable folk on the Forum know where the Battalion War Diary for 2KRRC/60th Rifles is held? The WO95 catalogue at National Archives lists 3rd & 4th Battalion only. Hampshire Records Office do not appear to have it.

Grateful for your help

Robin

[SPOF]

Robin

The war diary for Aug 1914 to Dec 1916 can be downloaded from here for £3.36. For the period frm Jan 1917 to June 1919 the NA reference is WO 95/1273. That isn't digitised yet so you'll either need to visit Kew or wait for the digitisation project to complete which will hopefully be next year.

Glen

[MBrockway]

Rory14, on 13 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Robin - the extract I took was straight from 2KRRC section of the 2nd Brigade Diary. I couldnt find anything in the diary with a map I am afraid. The extract from the N. Lancs diary of the same day also mentions it as a Railway Embankment - hope that helps.

Rory

My copy of the 2/KRRC battalion war diary (vs the brigade diary) has a gap between 17 Nov 1914 and 01 Jan 1915.  There are references to the enemy retaking the position on 01 Jan, but no detail.  Presumably this was detailed in the section I'm missing.  On 17 Nov they were en route between positions, so no detail of the December lines there either.  Have checked several weeks into Jan 1915 for maps or operational orders - nothing.
Cheers,
Mark

[goldsrobin]

Thanks for looking, Mark.

Regards

Robin

[goldsrobin]

Glen,
Thanks for that. Could you check the link as it is a general sponsored link list. It is Dec 14 that I am after, so your link would be ideal.

Cheers

Robin

[SPOF]

Try this direct link

http://www.nationala...TREF=wo 95/1272

[goldsrobin]

Thanks for your help, Glen. However, this looks like the same diary as Rory copied above. I am going to Kew next week to read the 1 Div and 2 Bde Diaries. But I still haven't tracked down the battalion diary for 2KRRC. It must exist somewhere. If not in NA, I may approach to Association to find out.

Cheers

Robin

MBrockway, on 15 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

My copy of the 2/KRRC battalion war diary (vs the brigade diary) has a gap between 17 Nov 1914 and 01 Jan 1915.  There are references to the enemy retaking the position on 01 Jan, but no detail.  Presumably this was detailed in the section I'm missing.  On 17 Nov they were en route between positions, so no detail of the December lines there either.  Have checked several weeks into Jan 1915 for maps or operational orders - nothing.
Cheers,
Mark

Do you know where the battalion diary, from which your copy is taken, is held?

Regards

Robin

[MBrockway]

goldsrobin, on 15 November 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Do you know where the battalion diary, from which your copy is taken, is held?
Regards

Robin

Robin,
National Archive digitised version of WO95/1272, but approx 3 years old vintage.  They may have corrected the gap by now.

HTH
Cheers,
Mark

[SPOF]

Robin

The link I gave you IS the battalion war diary and it has been updated to include the dates missing in Mark's older copy.

Glen

[goldsrobin]

Brilliant, Glen. Many thanks. I will download and see what 31 Dec 14 holds.

Cheers

Robin