9 replies to this topic

[aussienoel]

I'm looking for anything I can find on the activities of the Army Ordnance Corps in the Russian Intervention of 1918-1920. And not making much progress!

The sort of thing I'm after is how many AOC men were involved, units they were with, where they were stationed and any susequent movements, when they returned home, and so on and so forth.

One of 'my men' received a White Russian award (Medal for Zeal on the ribbon of St. Stanislaus). I believe that he was in the regular army and continued to serve after the war, and so his records will still be with the Ministry of Defence and unfortunately I do not qualify under the kinship test to have access them. His name was Albert Victor Watsham. I am hoping that if I can find out more about the AOC in the Intervention that I can put his service into some sort of perspective.

He served first in Egypt, then France and then (I assume) in Russia. He was awarded the BEM, MSM, 1914-15 Star, BWM and VM, as well as the Medaille d'Honneur avec Glaives (en argent) by the French government, and the White Russian award as above. I have his Medal Index Card and various Gazette entries. One (21 Nov 1939) refers to his appointment as Lieutenant (O.E.O 3rd Class) with the RAOC. No service record, pension record or anything else.

All help most gratefully received.

Thank you,

Noel

[LST_164]

Not sure how much practical help this will be, but having put together a service history of a WW1 AOC blacksmith for his family, I noted that he was sent out to the South Russian Expeditionary Force in January 1919 and posted to "No.2 OMW (W)" at Batoum in Georgia until June.  I gather that this might stand for "Ordnance Mechanical Workshop".  

Clive

[Waggoner]

Noel,

There is a multi-volume on the history of the Ordnance services you might wish to look at. I am away from home at the moment and so do not have the exact reference for you.

All the best,

Gary

[Terry_Reeves]

Noel

It is quite possible that he never served in Russia.  Throughout the war a system of reciprocal awards operated amongst the allied nations. Each nation would allocate various medals to each other, the recipient nation being responsible for allocating them to individuals within their armed forces irrespective of what theatre of war they served in.

TR.

[ForeignGong]

Terry_Reeves, on 25 June 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Noel

It is quite possible that he never served in Russia.  Throughout the war a system of reciprocal awards operated amongst the allied nations. Each nation would allocate various medals to each other, the recipient nation being responsible for allocating them to individuals within their armed forces irrespective of what theatre of war they served in.

TR.

No, this one is for the allied intervention, so definately went to Russia

Peter

[aussienoel]

Many thanks for the replies.

I can make one further contribution to what has been posted - as far as I can make out, the abbreviation 'OMW' stands for 'Ordnance Mobile Workshop.' Doesn't help with my question, but it adds to the knowledge base!

[madtaffy]

Hi Noel

dont think your man went to Russia as he was discharged in september 1920
one of my men has the same russia award as your man but mine man got his in 1917, and he never went to russia

Ian

[aussienoel]

madtaffy, on 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Hi Noel

dont think your man went to Russia as he was discharged in september 1920
one of my men has the same russia award as your man but mine man got his in 1917, and he never went to russia

Ian

Ian, may I ask where you have this discharge date from? I have not been able to find any service or pension record, and there's nothing on his MIC to indicate a discharge date.

I would very much like to know the source of your information.

Feel free to PM me if you would prefer.

Thank you,

Noel

[madtaffy]

Hi Noel

got the date of the pairs medal roll, if you pm me your e-mail i can send you copies of the 15 star roll and the pairs roll

the russia award is completley different, as was explained to me
the Russian's gave the brits a number of awards, the brits gave them to to army, the army top brass then gave them to the corps, who gave them to the divisions in there own corps, the divisions then gave them to the different regiments and corps that made the division up, the C.O's in charge of the regiments and corps battalions then gave out what they had to the men under thier command that they thought had done a little bit more but not enought for a MID

dont quote me on that but thats how it was explained to me

Ian

P.S.

forgot to say he enlisted in early 1912

[ForeignGong]

madtaffy, on 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Hi Noel

dont think your man went to Russia as he was discharged in september 1920
one of my men has the same russia award as your man but mine man got his in 1917, and he never went to russia

Ian

As stated before this was for the Russian Intervention & these were never gazetted, they were listed in the Confidential List only. A lot of the recipients never received their Medals / Decorations as they were not supplied by the White Russians.

Peter