35 replies to this topic

[hampshire hog]

many of you are most probably thinking,....not her again!!..lol

But can anyone identify, this uniform, and cap badge please!?

I have in previous posts, been told, its most probably, the Royal Engineers,..but can i be 100%.
also what medals (apart from the 'duff' VC), is he wearing, and what are the ribbons for??

im trying to find hisMedal index card,..but of course there are plenty of Andrew Camerons, but not knowing what reg, he was in,...i dont know which card would have been his!!
therefore if somone can identify, the badge, uniform, and medals/ribbons,..then maybe i can narrow, down my results, on ancestry!
thanks
Gina

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[hampshire hog]

oops sorry...should have said...the guy in the middle, sitting down!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

 hampshire hog, on 24 June 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

many of you are most probably thinking,....not her again!!..lol

But can anyone identify, this uniform, and cap badge please!?

I have in previous posts, been told, its most probably, the Royal Engineers,..but can i be 100%.
also what medals (apart from the 'duff' VC), is he wearing, and what are the ribbons for??

im trying to find hisMedal index card,..but of course there are plenty of Andrew Camerons, but not knowing what reg, he was in,...i dont know which card would have been his!!
therefore if somone can identify, the badge, uniform, and medals/ribbons,..then maybe i can narrow, down my results, on ancestry!
thanks
Gina

Gina,
Firstly, post away, most of the members enjoy providing the answers, and secondly, why would a group of seemingly sincere WW1 soldiers pose for a formal photograph, with one wearing a Duff V.C. ?
Back then, I am not sure that would have been done ? King's regulations etc.
Why do you think it is a Duff V.C. ? Perhaps the V.C. is real, and it was awarded to the man seated ? The photograph is too small to make out too much detail, in the original can you actually see a V.C.
Regards,
LF

[hampshire hog]

Thank LF, for your reply!!

i have many posts going on here, victorianwars, and rootschat!,..and it seems that he was a lIar,...it hasnt been Published in any papers!..or on any records!
...although there is lots of newspaper articles of him claiming he won it!, Biblical News, of churches abroad, using his story, in their Sermons, a book titled: Andrew Cameron, how he won the two crosses,. written by a reverend and editor, of the Christian scotsman newspaper, in Glasgow!!!
many newspaper articles, about his diving adventures, and most claim, he did a good deed, in the british navy, and earned a pension for life!,...newspaper claims of him being the world record Deep sea diver, c1898.
He claims to have won the VC, in 1882, in the Bombardment, of Alexandria, his claim was that he was sent down to the seabed, to disarm whitehead torpedeos..............however he was discharged from the Navy in 1878!..so you can see where the doubt sets in!!

i just cant get to the bottom of this!!


but thanks for your reply.
Gina

http://1914-1918.inv...topic=36474&hl=

link, that i started in 2005,..although i have deleted the pictures! x

[HERITAGE PLUS]

LF

You need to read Gina's previous thread on the subject of the VC.,


http://1914-1918.inv...topic=36474&hl=

Dave

Edit: Two post same time!

[old owl]

Hi Gina,

Can you take a close up of the cap badge(s) and also of the medals/medal ribbons of the gentleman in question.  I'm afraid as L.F.says the image is toooo small!!

Robert

[old owl]

i just cant get to the bottom of this

quote]

Obviously he couldn't either---perhaps the water was too deep!!   

[hampshire hog]

medals close up,..will have to find the orginal scan picture,..to get a closeup of the badge!!!

whats the ribbon bar type thing,..ill post tomorrow a close up of that too

thanks
Gina

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[Lancashire Fusilier]

Gina,
There is obviously far more to this story than your original post, I have not heard of it before, and no doubt more interesting posts will follow.
Regards,
LF

[FROGSMILE]

I am familiar with this story from your other threads.

There is no doubt in my mind that the cap badges of all the men are Royal Engineers (RE).  That is a personal opinion but based on some experience of insignia ID.

As regards the medals.  I believe that one is a fake VC and the middle one appears to be a Coronation medal, probably of Edward VII and his Queen.  I can see two head and shoulder silhouettes superimposed.  The final medal is a Temperance medal for years of abstinence.

[hampshire hog]

Thanks Frogsmile!

would these 2 medals, be listed on his medal index Card???

i will get round, sometime today, to post a closer pic of the medal/ribbon, on the uniform!......but what is the ribbon bar, thing??(sorry for being so ignorant)

Thanks
Gina

[Graham Stewart]

Gina - they need to see a close up of the three medal ribbons worn while in Army uniform, below the 'duff' VC - not the ones worn while a civvy - these have no significance to any military career. As recently posted these could possibly lead us to the fact that Andrew Cameron, may have served in the Army/Militia/Volunteers after being Discharged from the R.N.

However you now run the risk of losing the thread of your original post, by running it in two seperate sections.

Ask if the co-ordinators can bring it all together.

[hampshire hog]

Hi
Sorry,..it taken me ages, to sift through, to find the original scan, of the picture...but finally found it!

Im not too bothered about the other thread,..its been there since 2005, and its been placed in the Miscellaneous, section!
my main research atm...is to identify the badge, and medals/ribbons!....i think the VC story,.im gonna have to let go!

this is, as good as i can get the pic, im afraid!
Thanks, as always
Gina

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•  medals.jpg   30.22K   0 downloads
•  cap badge.jpg   21.52K   0 downloads

[FROGSMILE]

 hampshire hog, on 25 June 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Hi
Sorry,..it taken me ages, to sift through, to find the original scan, of the picture...but finally found it!

Im not too bothered about the other thread,..its been there since 2005, and its been placed in the Miscellaneous, section!
my main research atm...is to identify the badge, and medals/ribbons!....i think the VC story,.im gonna have to let go!

this is, as good as i can get the pic, im afraid!
Thanks, as always
Gina

Medal ribbons is not an area where I have great experience, although I have reasonable general knowledge.  However, there are many real experts on medals in this forum.

It seems to me that two of the ribbons 'might' be the Queen's and King's South Africa medals from the 2nd Boer War (1899-1902).  That would fit with any Militia or Volunteer service (they were separate organizations) that he might have as an Engineer.  The third medal would then be the Coronation Medal already mentioned.  Alternatively, one of the three medals might relate to long service with the Militia/Volunteers.

All that said they could equally be medals for some other campaign and I will be interested to know what others, more qualified than I, might think.

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[FROGSMILE]

There were many versions of the Edward VII Coronation Medal issued, some by the War Office and others by Towns, Cities and Corporations.  Everyone competed to demonstrate their patriotism immediately after an expensive and hard fought war, where the Empire came together to achieve victory over the Boers after coming very close to disaster.

Some of the medals showed the couple facing left (as in your example), some facing right.  Some wore a crown and some did not.  Also, reflecting the class system of the times, some were issued in bronze, some in nickel and some in more precious metals.  Some had a proper mount and others were simply drilled with a hole (see enclosed image).

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[Graham Stewart]

Frogsmile - my thoughts too on these medals and the final one be the VLS. I suspect Mr. Cameron may have enlisted into the Volunteers, sometime after his Discharge from the R.N. and his fractured thigh doesn't seem to have hampered his enlistment or maybe he just never mentioned either of these to the recruiter. If he has re-enlisted then it would be nice to know where he was living in 1899-1903 to do a possible unit check and hopefully his Boer War Records have survived.

The final medal, I suspect being worn;-
 Cpl___2_Vol_Bn_NF_Ed_VII_Volunteer_Long_Service_Medal001.jpg   11.8K   0 downloads  Cpl___2_Vol_Bn_NF_Ed_VII_Volunteer_Long_Service_Medal002.jpg   13.21K   0 downloads

The Volunteer Long Service Medal

[hampshire hog]

HI thanks Guys!

Andrew Cameron is listed , in the 1901 Census,....
12 Alma Street, Govan, Glasgow
listed as Deep sea Diver!!
age 43

if you can find anything on him,...i would be so greatfull!


so just to clarify, The cap badge, is RE, but more than likely a Volunteer force????...or am i going off course!!??


Apparently he, saved some lives, recovered bodies, all over the world, lochs, recovered bodies from the HMS Eurydice Disater, in Isle of Wight, laid the foundations, at the Forth road Railway Bridge,....quite a bit!..so maybe the Coronation Medal, could have be issued, for one of these deeds,..do you think!???


Kind reagrds, as ever
Gina

[FROGSMILE]

 hampshire hog, on 26 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

HI thanks Guys!

Andrew Cameron is listed , in the 1901 Census,....
12 Alma Street, Govan, Glasgow
listed as Deep sea Diver!!
age 43

if you can find anything on him,...i would be so greatfull!


so just to clarify, The cap badge, is RE, but more than likely a Volunteer force????...or am i going off course!!??


Apparently he, saved some lives, recovered bodies, all over the world, lochs, recovered bodies from the HMS Eurydice Disater, in Isle of Wight, laid the foundations, at the Forth road Railway Bridge,....quite a bit!..so maybe the Coronation Medal, could have be issued, for one of these deeds,..do you think!???


Kind reagrds, as ever
Gina

Yes, the cap badge is RE, of which there were Regular, Miltia and Volunteer units (the latter two are part time).  It seems likely that he was a Volunteer with a RE company based at a Port.

The Coronation medal could be either issued to all (depending on the financial largesse of the government) or a number were issued to each unit and divvied out according to a given policy that might have rewarded 'individual deeds' (such as that you mentioned).  We need an expert on the Edward VII medals to conform which it was.

Based on Graham's support above, I now think that the three medals are the King's South Africa medal, the Volunteer Long Service Medal and the Edward VII Coronation medal.

[Graham Stewart]

Gina - Been doing some tracking down of Andrew Cameron and it appears some of his Diving Adventures appeared in a childrens book called "Stories of Sea Adventures", which was published by the Sunday School Union, London 1913. Apparently one chapter on 'Diving Adventures' is mainly about Andrew Cameron.

Now going back to your reference to him being involved with the wreck of H.M.S. Eurydice, which foundered of the Isle of Wight on the 24th March 1878 - well Andrew was serving aboard H.M.S. Tamar, (which was a troopship) at that time(12th Feb to 19th April) and I can find no reference of her being present during the diving/recovery operations of this ship.

[hampshire hog]

Oh sugar!

More lies maybe, about HMS Eurydice!,.....i Have that Book, mentioned above,..and it also mentions in there, that he was used to help recover the bodies, of HMS Eurydice!!!

So..would i be able to find medal records, if he was RE, Volunteers???
Thanks Gina

[hampshire hog]

Would/could, it have been possible, for him to be taken from HMS TAMAR,..to help?????
Gina

[Graham Stewart]

 hampshire hog, on 26 June 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Would/could, it have been possible, for him to be taken from HMS TAMAR,..to help?????
Gina

Quite possible, but I'm trying to find where Tamar was at the time. She ended up in Hong Kong, where she became a permanent fixture in the Harbour and it's from the ships name that H.M.S. Tamar, became the Royal Navy's Hong Kong Naval Base.

Also found this lenghty write up on the efforts to recover the Eurydice;-
http://www.pdavis.nl/Eurydice.php

[Graham Stewart]

Not good Gina - H.M.S. Tamar sailed in October 1877 for Hong Kong and arrived there on the 20th December 1877 - where it remained.

[hampshire hog]

Thank-you.......
what a man, Andrew Cameron is!?......great tales to tell,..just not true!
x

[Graham Stewart]

Looking at his R.N. Doc's seem's he sailed on the Emanuel for Hong Kong on 5th January 1878 arriving there on the 11th February, where he joined H.M.S. Tamar on the 12th Feb. He remained with the Tamar in Hong Kong until 19th April when he joins the Duke of Wellington on the 20th April and returns to the UK on the 8th June 1878. It looks as though he wasn't even in UK waters when the Eurydice went down.

So he either had his accident in Hong Kong and was being returned for treatment at the R.N.H. Haslar or aboard the Duke.