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uniform and badge id, help please?


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#26 hampshire hog

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:28 PM

I Just dont understand,..how he can tell, all these tales, and lies,...and i cant find any criminal record, or newspaper article!!!

i have 2 books about him,....2 photos, with the medals on,.1 pic, of him, in his diving dress.......10+ newspaper articles of his 'diving stories',..although they are mainly from the US,.......many publications, from Biblical people,....bigging him up!....yet its all seems to be lies!!!

when he was questioned in court, as to how he had the VC, in 1917(at the hearing for the Carlingford Lough Disaster)....why wasnt he revealved as a cheat, imposter?
Sad man,....and im ashamed to say, he was my husbands ggrandfather!!!

where i go from here? i dont know!....cant seem to find any info, on the 'other' diving heroism stories, apart from the biblical publications

i just really need to find a prosecution record, or newspaper article, unveiling his lies!..............but i cant!
Thanks for your help!
Gina

#27 hampshire hog

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:46 PM

http://paperspast.na...990107.2.46.4.1

Daily Telegraph,...assumably New Zealand Paper!

#28 hampshire hog

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:50 PM

http://paperspast.na...8980219.2.59.20

Auckland Star..Copyrighted???

#29 FROGSMILE

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:04 PM

I have to laugh at his gall.  He was clearly a bit of a Walter Mitty character and revelled in the attention that his outrageous claims attracted.  I nearly laughed out loud at his description of the girl, apparently still sat in her fully submerged state room waiting to go ashore with her satchel "clutched" in her hand.  People were so gullible then and he must have seen it as money for old rope/yarn.

#30 Graham Stewart

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

Struggling to find any reference to a SS HANKOW disaster off Ceylon - however a similar named vessel caught fire in Hong Kong Harbour and 130 lives were lost in 1906.

Brief notes on Sir Alfred Phillips Ryder - b.27/6/1820; d.30/4/1888.
Ryder was the son of Rt. Rev. Hon. Henry Ryder and Sophia March Phillipps. His father had been Bishop of Lichfield and Coventry.[1] He married Louisa Dawson, daughter of Henry Dawson of Launde Abbey,[2] on 29 June 1852.
He joined the Royal Navy in 1833.[2] He was the captain of the frigate, HMS Dauntless, from 1853 to 1857, during the Crimean War.[3] He went on to be Second in Command of the Channel Squadron and Naval attaché in Paris.[2] He became Commander-in-Chief of the China Station in 1874 and finally Commander-in-Chief, Portsmouth in 1879.[2] He retired in 1882.[2]
Ryder was an active member of the Church of England Purity Society which was an organisation founded by the Archbishop of Canterbury. Ryder wrote letters under the nom de plume of XYZ objecting to the practise of men and women both painting life models together.[4]
He was decorated with the award of Knight, Order of the Medjidie. He gained the rank of Admiral of the Fleet. He was invested as a Knight Commander, Order of the Bath (K.C.B.) Ryder died on 30 April 1888 at age 67 after falling into the river Thames at the Vauxhall steamboat pier.

He left the China Station in 1877.

#31 Graham Stewart

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:57 PM

Gina - R.N. vessels he served on.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/HMS_Penelope
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/HMS_Duncan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Juno
http://en.wikipedia....iki/HMS_Kestrel
http://en.wikipedia....ki/HMS_Vigilant
http://en.wikipedia....Emmanuel_(1855)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tamar
http://en.wikipedia....llington_(1852)

Just tie in his dates of service with them.

Having looked at the services of these vessels and Andrew's Documents, it does actually appear that it was the Victor Emmanuel that was based in Hong Kong, in which he served for just over a month. The Tamar appears to have sailed to Hong Kong in late 1877 and then returned to the UK in the February of 1878, reaching the UK in the April. So he seems to have been at Sea when the Eurydice sank in the March.

The Duke of Wellington was based in Portsmouth and had been for sometime, but he may have only been listed here for administrative purposes as he was in R.N.H. Haslar with his fractured thigh.

To confirm his admission to Haslar you need to see if his medical record still survives.

#32 Graham Stewart

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:02 PM

On top of which - apparently Sir Thomas Boucher laid the foundation stone of the Forth Railway Bridge.

#33 hampshire hog

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 08:52 PM

Hi thanks for all this info Graham!

Just reading through 'The stories of a sea adventure book'...he doesnt actually name the'hankow' as the mailboat,....but "one of the peninsular and oriental mail boats, went down, off Ceylon, as she was making her way into the harbour"


as for the forth bridge,..i dont think he laid the first foundation,...but helped with laying the foundations/parts thats underwater!...a family member remembers him doing this!!!

i havent got around to researching any of these 'stories' properly yet!

Thanks
Gina

#34 FROGSMILE

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:33 PM

View Posthampshire hog, on 27 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Hi thanks for all this info Graham!

Just reading through 'The stories of a sea adventure book'...he doesnt actually name the'hankow' as the mailboat,....but "one of the peninsular and oriental mail boats, went down, off Ceylon, as she was making her way into the harbour"


as for the forth bridge,..i dont think he laid the first foundation,...but helped with laying the foundations/parts thats underwater!...a family member remembers him doing this!!!

i havent got around to researching any of these 'stories' properly yet!

Thanks
Gina

I suspect that some small parts of his story will be true, but certainly not the VC part.  Personally I don't see him as a bad man, just as an inveterate teller of tall tales. He wasn't the first and he certainly won't be the last.  I imagine that he was very entertaining company.

#35 Stoppage Drill

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:26 PM

View Posthampshire hog, on 24 June 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:



i have many posts going on here, victorianwars, and rootschat!,..and it seems that he was a lIar,...it hasnt been Published in any papers!..or on any records!
...although there is lots of newspaper articles of him claiming he won it!, Biblical News, of churches abroad, using his story, in their Sermons, a book titled: Andrew Cameron, how he won the two crosses,. written by a reverend and editor, of the Christian scotsman newspaper, in Glasgow!!!
many newspaper articles, about his diving adventures, and most claim, he did a good deed, in the british navy, and earned a pension for life!,...newspaper claims of him being the world record Deep sea diver, c1898.
He claims to have won the VC, in 1882, in the Bombardment, of Alexandria, his claim was that he was sent down to the seabed, to disarm whitehead torpedeos..............however he was discharged from the Navy in 1878!..so you can see where the doubt sets in!!

i just cant get to the bottom of this!!



The "Bombardment of Alexandria" connection makes me reflect on the fact that one of the 3 VC's won in the1882 Orabi Pasha rebellion was awarded to a man called David Embleton. He served as Frederick Corbett in KRRC, and his medal was forfeited a couple of years later, after he was convicted of several crimes of dishonesty.
It is believed that Corbett/Embleton had several copies of his medal made, and sold the original before it was forfeited. The sale was held to be legal, as he was briefly out of the army, and was entitled to sell, so the buyer was deemed to have acquired good title. In later years the medal had come into the possession of an Urban District Council, the clerk of which was informed by the War Office that the medal should not be returned to Embleton/Corbett, as his name had been erased from the Victoria Cross Register.  The medal is now at the Green Jackets Museum in Winchester.

One wonders why he had the copies made - to sell, perhaps ? (Seems likely, bearing in mind his dishonesty - embezzlement was on of the offences of which he was convicted.) It's a tenuous connection, but could the duff VC worn by Cameron here be one ofEmbleton/ Corbett's fakes ?

No aspersions cast on Corbett's bravery - it obviously ran in the family. A great nephew won an immediate (i.e. for bravery) MC as a Chindit in Burma as an officer in The Nigeria Regiment in 1943/44.

#36 Stoppage Drill

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:08 PM

Is it possible to ascertain the ribbon colour from these b/w photographs ? An 1882 naval VC would have the blue ribbon - wouldn't it ?