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HMS CAROLINE


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#1 Jutlands Last

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:48 PM

I am contacting you as a representative on behalf of ‘Friends of HMS Caroline’ and ‘Caroline Comrades’  to help save HMS Caroline’s plight and to keep her here for the future generations in Belfast to enjoy.

I’m aware that most of you have heard of HMS Caroline, currently berthed in Alexandra Basin, Belfast Docks. The reason I am contacting you is to raise the awareness of HMS Caroline and to advise you of the possibility of her being lost to the Royal Naval Museum in Portsmouth.

On 28th January, 1914, the Admiralty ordered a series of C Class Light Cruisers to be built by Cammell Laird of Birkenhead. HMS Caroline was completed in 9 months; launched 21st September 1914 and commissioned for active service on 17th December 1914, a record still unbeaten for a ship of her size - 3750 tons. She served in WW1 and has Battle Honours for ‘Jutland’ in 1916, the last Great Naval action; she is the sole floating survivor of the battle. Post WW1, she served in British waters and the East Indies until 1922 and then in Northern Ireland during WW2, as the Royal Navy's headquarters in Belfast Harbour.

After WW1 it was decided to extend the RNVR to Northern Ireland. Enthusiastic volunteers formed the Ulster Division RNVR in 1924, and HMS Caroline moved to Belfast to act as the HQ for the newly formed division, latterly renamed the RNR. The RNR division was then decommissioned and moved ashore and recommissioned as HMS Hibernia. Caroline was decommissioned on 31 March, 2011, in a traditional ceremony. Her ensign was laid up in St Anne's Cathedral in Belfast.

At her decommissioning she held the title of the second-oldest ship in Royal Navy service, next to HMS Victory, as well as being the last First World War British Light Cruiser in service. Her revolutionary Parsons steam turbines are the last surviving examples of the kind, introduced after the 30 knot Parsons ‘Turbinia’ cut up the fleet at the Spithead review in 1897.

Since her decommission in 2011 Caroline has been the responsibility of Dr Dominic Tweddle of the Royal Naval Museum at Portsmouth. Understandably, Dr Tweddle is very keen to move Caroline to Portsmouth and include her in the already impressive collection held there. Thankfully, she has not been moved, due to the poor condition of her hull, as she could not currently be towed or withstand a ships lift. All memorabilia on board has been stripped out and is held in storage in Portsmouth.

Not surprisingly, after nearly 100 years afloat, Caroline is in need of some TLC and urgently requires dry docking for repairs. With only one ship keeper employed to maintain her, she is showing her age and, worryingly, she is now in a very poor state. I should add this is not a reflection of the ongoing maintenance by the ship keeper, but of the limited resources being utilised.

Caroline’s plight in Belfast has become a concern to many of her ex-members and members of the public alike. After a couple of meetings it was decided to form a Management Committee* to represent all those concerned about Caroline. Our primary role is to save HMS Caroline, and to keep her in Belfast for future generations to enjoy, as a part of a Titanic Quarter Maritime Trail.

Several ideas have evolved as to her potential role in Belfast.

·       A stand alone Naval Museum – leased from Portsmouth.
·       Tourist attraction – further enhancing the maritime experience currently being witnessed in Belfast through the Titanic Experience.

·       A Shared Naval Experience – presented as a memorial for both men and women from Northern and Southern Ireland, who lost members of their families during both WW1 and WW2. Currently, there is little evidence of RN Memorials available to the public in Ireland. It should also be remembered that during WW2, VCs were awarded to sailors from Tipperary and Belfast.

·       It is also hoped that the current HMS Caroline Drill Space could be utilised as a lecture room or for private functions and exhibitions.

Volunteers - mainly ex-members of Caroline’s Ship’s Company will need to be utilised to assist in the running and maintenance of her.

All the MLAs in Stormont and NI MPs in Parliament have been contacted for their support and to make them aware of the unique resource currently floating in Belfast Harbour. We are currently consolidating their replies of support. A feasibility study has been conducted by DeLoitte, as requested by Arlene Foster for Department of Enterprise, Trade & Investment. This report is currently unavailable to the public and no ‘completion date’ is known as yet.

The Irish Government has also been contacted and is keen to help in the promotion of a North/South memorial ‘Shared Naval Experience’ for all men from Ireland who served in WW1.

Naturally, keeping HMS Caroline in Belfast would require substantial funding and grants, which will need to be secured. Until the DETI report is received and the Naval Museum declares its true intentions for the future of Caroline, our hands are tied.

We do not want Caroline saved, only for her to be then moved to Portsmouth.

But we are able to highlight her current situation and drum up support from Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland and hopefully Western Scotland. Can you please highlight our cause, we would like to encourage everyone to contact their local MLAs and MPs to voice our concerns and raise the profile of Caroline.

#2 Jutlands Last

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:02 PM

new web site www.hmscaroline.com launched, please join and register.

#3 anneca

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:47 PM

Hi - As ex WRNR I have an interest in this - can't seem to get on to the website though.

http://1914-1918.inv...opic=180839&hl=

#4 Jutlands Last

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:12 PM

www.HMSCaroline.com. I checked tonight all appears to be ok

Any error message?

#5 Jutlands Last

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

Petition running too

http://www.petitiono...in-belfast/4425


#6 ADRIAN58

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:23 PM

HMS Caroline loss inconceivable, says former NIO minister.  see link  http://www.bbc.co.uk...reland-18646084

#7 Jutlands Last

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 08:34 PM

The launch of the 'Friends of HMS Caroline' website HMSCaroline.com was a great success today onboard HMS Caroline despite the rain Lord Mayor Gavin Robinson and MLS Nigel Dodds attended and showed their support.  UTV interviewed most people involved and hopefully it'll be televised next week.  The Belfast Telegraph, News Letter & Irish News all had photographers & reporters onboard to record the event. We also had slots on BBC Radio Ulster Talkback & Frank Mitchell U105.

A big thanks to all involved BZ

#8 anneca

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostJutlands Last, on 27 June 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

www.HMSCaroline.com. I checked tonight all appears to be ok

Any error message?
Hi, I have been having computer problems - looks like the reason I wasn't able to get onto the site.  On the laptop now so am sort of functioning although slower. Was able to access the site and have signed the petition.  Look forward to seeing the programme.  Good Luck!

#9 Jutlands Last

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:00 PM

DEPARTMENT OF ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND INVESTMENT

5 July 2012

HMS Caroline in Belfast should stay in Belfast - Foster

Tourism Minister, Arlene Foster has met with the Ministry of Defence to discuss options for keeping HMS Caroline in Belfast.

The Minister, accompanied by Nigel Dodds MP and Northern Ireland, Minister of State, Hugo Swire met with Andrew Robathan, Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans in London yesterday.

Arlene Foster said: “This was a positive meeting and we impressed upon Mr Robathan the need to keep HMS Caroline in Belfast. Over the past year I and my officials have been trying to find a solution to this issue working in partnership with the Museum of the Royal Navy. Last summer I asked for an appraisal of options for the ship to be undertaken and this work was completed in January of this year. The report concluded that whilst there were significant funding challenges there were real benefits to restoring the ship here in Belfast.

“HMS Caroline has been berthed in Belfast since 1924 and is an important part of our maritime heritage. In its current location beside Titanic Belfast, the ship offers a unique opportunity to further develop tourism in Titanic Quarter. Already, more than 200,000 people have visited Titanic Belfast since it opened at the end of March. I believe HMS Caroline could play an important role in attracting even more visitors to the area.

“Following the meeting I now intend to write to the Museum of the Royal Navy and hope to meet with them soon to progress this matter.”

#10 anneca

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:47 PM

It looks like this was a positive meeting and hope the meeting with the Museum of the RN is another positive step towards keeping her.

#11 W.J.Caughey

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:29 PM

Been down at HMS Caroline many times though the years , so just signed petition, so wish you every success.

Walter

#12 Simon Mills

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:56 PM

I suppose that in view of the long-standing connection with the town that it would be nice if the HMS Caroline could remain at Belfast, but the problem is that Portsmouth could also be a very appropriate location.

Not to put too fine a point on it I have visited Belfast many times over the years to work on the occasional documentary or media project, etc. (usually Titanic-related) and every time I have been there I couldn't help but notice the HMS Caroline tied up in the Alexandra Dock, seemingly forgotten and looking rather forlorn and sorry for herself. Each time she seemed to look just that little bit shabbier and yet nothing ever seemed to happen to the ship itself.

Based on what I have read in this forum, it's only the fact that the Museum of the Royal Navy is now considering moving the ship that Northern Ireland has suddenly become so aware of the potential loss of this asset, which has seemingly remained unused for more years than I can remember. The 2011 Belfast City Council Tourism Monitor doesn't even include the  HMSCaroline in its figures, the largest draws apparently being the Belfast shopping area (60%), Belfast City Hall (57%) and the Crown Bar (43%). Coincidentally the Thompson Dock and Pump House (probably the nearest landmarks to the Caroline itself), accounts for only 8%.

I don't know much about the logistics concerned if/when it comes to moving the vessel, but I can't help feeling that if the HMS Caroline was actually moved to Portsmouth then she could potentially be visited by a large percentage of the 400,000+ tourists who visit the Historic Dockyard every year.

Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-Belfast keeping the HMS Caroline but it is frustrating that only the prospect of losing the vessel has galvanised the appropriate authorities into becoming so concerned about the vessel's future whereabouts...

#13 Keith Roberts

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:25 PM

The most important thing is to save the ship. If that can be done, then Belfast or Pompey, so be it. Not long ago the discussion was about scrapping rather than saving this historic ship. She would be welcome in Portsmouth, and would only add to the historic items in the dockyard, but if she can be saved in Belfast, with adequate financial underpinning to secure her future then surely that will be a good result.

#14 anneca

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:32 PM

View PostKeith Roberts, on 07 July 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

The most important thing is to save the ship. If that can be done, then Belfast or Pompey, so be it. Not long ago the discussion was about scrapping rather than saving this historic ship. She would be welcome in Portsmouth, and would only add to the historic items in the dockyard, but if she can be saved in Belfast, with adequate financial underpinning to secure her future then surely that will be a good result.
I totally agree with your sentiments on this one! First priority - save the ship; second priority - try to keep her in Belfast; third priority - if Belfast is not an option, Pompey or anywhere as long as she is saved.

#15 corisande

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:45 PM

Quote

Since her decommission in 2011 Caroline has been the responsibility of Dr Dominic Tweddle of the Royal Naval Museum at Portsmouth. Understandably, Dr Tweddle is very keen to move Caroline to Portsmouth and include her in the already impressive collection held there. Thankfully, she has not been moved, due to the poor condition of her hull, as she could not currently be towed or withstand a ships lift. All memorabilia on board has been stripped out and is held in storage in Portsmouth.

I am not clear here.

1. Who actually owns Caroline today. Royal Navy or Naval Museum Portsmouth ?

2. If the ship is moved to Portsmouth, who will pay for the restoration. The taxpayer in one form or another, or from private subscriptions

3. If it is the taxpayer, then why is it being moved to Portsmouth, rather than left restored in Belfast. ?

#16 Simon Mills

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:05 PM

View Postcorisande, on 10 July 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I am not clear here.
1. Who actually owns Caroline today. Royal Navy or Naval Museum Portsmouth?
2. If the ship is moved to Portsmouth, who will pay for the restoration. The taxpayer in one form or another, or from private subscriptions
3. If it is the taxpayer, then why is it being moved to Portsmouth, rather than left restored in Belfast?

Admittedly I am no expert, but I think that the answers are as follows:

1) The Royal Navy. Until December 2009 she was used, I think, by the RNR, but the vessel was not actually decommissioned until some time last year.
2) There are already several historic vessels at Portsmouth (for starters, the Mary Rose and HMS Warrior), but each is owned and operated by a different organisation. These are charitable trusts, and are therefore reliant on donations and fund raising. The inevitable exception to the rule is the HMS Victory, although of course she is still a commissioned ship, so I assume that she remains the financial responsibility of the RN.
3) See above.

S.

#17 Keith Roberts

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:11 PM

While Victory remains the flagship of the Royal Navy she has been transferred to a charitable trust.  http://www.politicsh...y_transfer.html

I don't begin to comprehend the funding issues regarding HMS Caroline, but desperately hope that they will be resolved.

Keith

#18 corisande

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

Keith

Whilst admittedly I come from Belfast and you from Portsmouth, I was trying to remove the personal aspects of Caroline. ;)

The issue comes down to funding and who pays.

My point was if the taxpayer is paying, and not private donations, then why move a ship that has been in Belfast since 1924?

#19 Keith Roberts

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

There's no personal aspect so far as I am concerned. I'm a Yorkshireman. I really don't mind where the ship is preserved, so long as it is. My residential location is an accident of my personal history. One day I will hopefully return to god's own county.

Keith

#20 Jutlands Last

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

Decision on HMS Caroline has been delayed for another month as funding has been found for the same period. ministers are still debating the issue!!

#21 Keith Roberts

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:27 AM

Latest news: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/breakthrough-in-bid-to-save-hms-caroline-says-heritage-boss-1-4114364

#22 anneca

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:57 PM

The future is looking a bit brighter for the old girl - hopefully the threat of breaking her up has now gone.

#23 ADRIAN58

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:04 PM

Talks to keep HMS Caroline in Belfast  http://www.bbc.co.uk...reland-19077647

#24 Keith Roberts

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:10 PM

I don't mind where the ship is preserved, so long as she is.
lets hope that there is a successful outcome to the negotiations.

Keith

#25 andy smart

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:42 PM

I've just seen her in Belfast - the guide told us that she was costing a grand a week to keep her where she is