16 replies to this topic

[aggyaggy]

Hello All,

I am a Trustee for Euxton War Memorial Group; a village in the town of Chorley, Lancashire, where ROF Chorley used to be (now the Buckshaw Village development).

To cut a long story short, the village has a couple of small Church Memorials, but no central public memorial or place of remembrance which is accessible for all and unrestricted.

As a voluntary group we are working hard fundraising and researching possible men and women, eligible for inclusion on a proposed memorial.

Regardless of it being non-denominational, the Diocese of Blackburn has kindly donated an area of land in front of Euxton Parish Church Community Centre, for a memorial to be erected, which will include names from World War One to the loss of WO2 David Markland in 2010.

For further project details, please visit our website:

http://euxton-war-me...l-group.org.uk/

I am hoping that this new topic might encourage some constructive comments either about the proposal, ideas, and importantly names which you might think are eligible for inclusion, or at least discussion and maybe someone out there will have some conclusive evidence or information which will confirm a persons eligibility for inclusion.

Many thanks for your time with this and I will post more specific details about the project and the names already proposed in the near future.

[Phil_B]

I trust you`ll include Dick Barrow, lived at a house called Serreville on the A49. Wounded 1/7/16 with the Accrington Pals.

[aggyaggy]

Hi Phil,
Whilst aware of Dick Barrow (buried in Euxton St Marys) he didnt die in service so wouldnt be included on the memorial.
However, whilst conducting our research we have been compiling a list of men and women we have found who served and survived from WW1 to today and were born or resided in Euxton.

[Phil_B]

He actually took a machine gun bullet to the skull and had a metal plate fitted.

[John Hartley]

Was it his cause of death, Phil? I don't see him listed by CWGC - could he be a non-commemorated?

[KevinBattle]

There are a number of men NOT on your website that are on the CWGC database....
Harding, Jackson, Johnson, Leigh, Walmsley
Have you not used their Advanced Search function?
PM me if you need the 24 listed over both WW1  (11) and WW2 (13)

Don't worry, it's rare to find any War Memorial that is accurate!
I've just been wrestling with what seems to have been a dyslexic stonemason!

[Phil_B]

John Hartley, on 01 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Was it his cause of death, Phil? I don't see him listed by CWGC - could he be a non-commemorated?

No - he lived to a ripe old age. Sorry if I`ve misled you gents. Here he is as a young man and an old man. The scar is visible.

[aggyaggy]

Thanks for the posts everyone.

Please keep thoughts and suggestions coming.

Phil- Very interesting to see the photos of Dickie. It seems he was one of the last surviving Chorley Pals when he died.

Dont worry at this stage about the names listed on the website- it needs updating.
As a registered charity with a constituion we have set a criteria for inclusion on the memorial.
Hopefully soon, I will add to this thread a list of our `Definites` and `Maybes` based on our research, criteria, etc.

We need help hopefully to confirm/prove that the `Maybes` can become `Definites` - we are doing our best to not leave any stone unturned and not miss anyone out.

[aggyaggy]

This is the list of names that the Euxton War Memorial Group is curently researching.

This list includes all names from WW1 to the present.

NAME
BATTALION
WW2
WW1
WAR





Allen Walter
Royal Fusilliers
WW2


Ashworth David
Battery



Balcombe Cyril
Yorkshire
WW2


Barrow Richard Charles
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Barton James
Royal Garrison Artilliary



Beardsworth Joseph
Machine Gun Corp

WW1

Beckett Percy
Labour Corp

WW1

Beloe Ronald Armetryding
East Lancs



Berry Eric
Royal Air Force
WW2


Bland John Francis
East Lancs /Chorley Pals



Bland Wifred Henry
Canadian Engineers

WW1

Bolton Fred
Kings Liverpool Regiment

WW1

Bradley William
RAF Volunteer
WW2


Briers John
Welch Reg
WW2


Clitheroe Mary Louisa
Queen Mary Aux

WW1

Cobham Leonard
South Wales Border

WW1

Cornwell William (Osm)
Royal Navy

WW1

Cornwell William (Pte)
Liverpool Reg



Cornwell Frank Algernon
Royal Engineers

WW1

Cuncannon James Edward
Border Reg

WW1

Davis Herbert
Royal Army Service Corp
WW2


Dewhurst Henry
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Eccles Charles
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Fairclough Thomas


WW1

Farnworth Daniel
East Lancs / Chorley Pals

WW1

Ferrier Charles Edward
Royal Navy



Gilson Thomas
Royal Navy
WW2


Gornall Peter Robert
Lancashire Fusilier's
WW2


Groves Clifford John
Loyal North Lancs
WW2


Halstead Herbert
Loyal North Lancs



Harding Frederick Sydney
Manchester Regiment

WW1

Harris Robert Peter
Royal Navy
WW2


Harrop Wilfred Charles
Yorkshire Regiment
WW2


Harvey John Ellis
Lancashire Fusilier's



Herbert Jeffery
Royal Navy

WW1

Hodgson David Thomas
East Lancs / Chorley Pals

WW1

Holgate Stanley
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Hunt Peter
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Ingleston (Ingleson) Joseph
Royal Fusilier's



Jackman Harold
Rifle Corp

WW1

Jackman John (Jack)
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Jackman Wifred
Manchester Regiment
WW2


Johnson George James
Grenadier Guards

WW1

Knight Joseph
South Wales Borders

WW1

Leigh Cleobury John
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Mahoney Alan
Air Force Volunteer
WW2


Makin Joseph
Garrison Artillery



Markland David
Engineers


Afgh
Monk Kenneth
Royal Navy
WW2


Moore James Johnson
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Ollerton John
Royal Navy
WW2


Page Kenneth




Parker Jeremiah
RAF Volunteer Reserve Squadron 467



Parkinson Francis
South Wales
WW2


Parkinson John
Lancaster Reg

WW1

Parkinson Peter Roscoe
Royal Navy
WW2


Parkinson Thomas
Lancashire Fusilier



Parkinson William
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Pemberton Peter
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Pemberton Robert
Royal Armoured Corps



Pilkington James
Cornwall Light Infantry

WW1

Pilkington John
Loyal North Lancs



Robinson John 52783
Liverpool Reg

WW1

Robinson John 66567
Durham Light Infantry

WW1

Robinson Thomas
Machine Gun Corp

WW1

Roscoe Peter
Scots Guards

WW1

Settle Arthur
Royal Air Force



Sharp Edward Peter
East Lancs / Chorley Pals



Southworth James
Royal Navy
WW2


Southworth Thomas
Royal Navy



Squire Fergus Bowden
Lancashire Fusilier's
WW2


Stroud John
Royal Navy


Falk
Swift Herbert




Taylor Alexander
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Wallbank henry
Cheshire Reg

WW1

Wallbank Robert
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Walmsley Bertram ( Townson )
Loyal North Lancs

WW1

Watkinson John
Royal Navy



Watson James
Loyal North ancs

WW1

Winstanley William
Labour

WW1

Winward Thomas
Royal Navy



Woods John
Army Cycling Corp

WW1

Yates Samuel Topping
Fusilier London Reg

WW1

Yarnold Charles Frederick
Duke of Wellington's Regiment
WW2


Cross




Smith

Sorry for the last post. It was set out in a table format but for some reason hasnt displayed the same after ive clicked `post`.

[gallipian]

this memorial cant be for those who died in the wars,because 15841 richard,charles barrow wasnt killed in WW1,he died in 1984 aged 93,he returned to france/belgium after the war to visit the grave of his pal peter roscoe of the scots guards,who is on this memorial.
richard attended st.marys church,euxton and worked at chorley bleachworks,he was still working there when he retired,lived at cross ends,charnock richard

mack

[aggyaggy]

Hiya Mack,
Please see the list I posted above- Dickie Barrow isnt listed.
I think Phil was mentioning him because he was an Euxton man and well known of in the area and amongst those interested in the Pals.
And just to reemphasis this memorial doesnt exist yet. Above is the group of names that the group is currently working on in terms of research and their eligibility to be included.

[Mark Hone]

I have already contacted the project about him and unfortunately they drew a blank but if anyone has a picture of Frederick Harding I would be very grateful. He is one of the few Bury Grammar School old boys for whom I do not have a photograph. His family moved from Whitefield in Bury to Euxton and as a result he seems to have 'fallen through the cracks' in terms of local newspaper obituaries.
Keep up the good work.

[seadog]

This sounds like a commendable project. However have you considered the pitfalls of erecting such a memorial listing names of the dead so long after the event.  In my opinion it will not be the names you include but the names you omit for whatever reason that will cause a problem, will you also attempt to contact surviving members of the families involved to confirm that they will agree to the name of their ancestor to be included on the memorial. The last point is I believe an important one as if this was happening at the time which in the case of the WW1 dead would be in the 1920`s chances are that some of the relatives would not want their loved ones names inscribed on such a memorial.

Would not a much better solution be a memorial without names but with an inscription commemorating all those who fought and those who died from the village in all conflicts. The details of those who died could then be produced as a Roll of Honour in printed and perhaps also in internet format and the printed version made available to the citizens at whatever appropriate location you choose, this of course can then be amended or updated with ease. The memorial could then be in a form which is more in keeping with the modern era and without an overtly religious theme such as a cross which the majority of memorials erected after WW1 seem to have. This way you would of course be also remembering those who served and survived which in my opinion is a very important element of such a memorial.

Regards
Norman

[KevinBattle]

Just to clarify your List which spread rather widely, are there two Falklands casualties?

Stroud John Royal Navy Falk
Swift Herbert
I can't seem to find them on the Honour Boards on your website, and that's how they show on your expanded list.....
Please confirm these are your WW1 Casualty Listing

Private Joseph Beardsworth Machine Gun Corps 19 February 1917
Private Percy Beckett Labour Corps 19 June 1918
Voluntary Worker Mary Louise Clitheroe Queen Marys Army Auxiliary Corps 19 February 1919
Private Leonard Cobham 1st South Wales Borderers 26 April 1918
Corporal Frank A Cornwell Royal Engineers, 2 September 1917
Private Charles Eccles 5th Bn North West Lancs 21 September 1917
Private Joseph Knight 2nd Bn South Wales Borderers 11 April 1918
Private William Parkinson 4th Bn Loyal North Lancs 4 April 1917
Private John Parkinson Kings Own Royal Lancaster Reg't 13 April 1918
Private James Pilkington Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry 23 August 1918
Private John Robinson Durham Light Infantry 22 April 1917
Private John Robinson (2) Kings Own Liverpool Reg't 18 March 1917
Private Thomas Robinson Machine Gun Corps 22 August 1917
Private Peter Roscoe 1st Bn Scots Guards 2 November 1914
Private Alexander Taylor 6th Bn Loyal North (not 6th) Lancs 21 October 1916
Private Henry Wallbank 16th Bn Cheshire Reg't 26 November 1917
private Robert Wallbank 9th Bn Loyal North (not 9th) Lancs 21 October 1916
Private William Winstanley Labour Corps 2 September 1917
Corporal John Woods Army Cyclist Corps 25 October 1918
Ordinary Seaman W Cornwall Royal Navy 16 February 1916.

and..

Name: HARDING, FREDERICK SYDNEY. Rank: Private
Service No: 8643. Date of Death: 01/07/1916. Age: 24
Regiment/Service: Manchester Regiment. 17th Bn.
Panel Reference: Pier and Face 13 A and 14 C. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Frederick James and Florence Harding, of "Sunny Mead," Wigan Rd., Euxton, Chorley, Lancs.

Name: JACKMAN, JACK. Rank: Private
Service No: 217. Date of Death: 15/06/1915. Age: 36.
Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. 1st/4th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 27 and 28. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Brother of William Jackman, of Rose Bank, Euxton, Chorley, Lancs.

Name: JOHNSON, GEORGE JAMES. Rank: Private
Service No: 29557. Date of Death: 27/08/1918. Age: 21.
Regiment/Service: Grenadier Guards. 2nd Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 3. Memorial: VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of William Johnson, of Rose Hill Cottage, Euxton, Chorley, Lancs.

Name: LEIGH, JOHN CLEOBURY. Rank: Private
Service No: 1387. Date of Death: 15/06/1915. Age: 18
Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. 1st/4th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 27 and 28. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Martha Elizabeth Leigh, of The Knoll, Euxton, Chorley, Lancs., and the late James Leigh.

Name: WALMSLEY, BERTRAM. Rank: Private
Service No: 32051. Date of Death: 25/09/1917. Age: 20
Regiment/Service: The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. 10th Bn.
Grave Reference: III. A. 9. Cemetery: LOCRE HOSPICE CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Charles and Ann Walmsley, of Flag Lane, Euxton, Chorley, Lancs.

and WW2:-

Name: MONK, KENNETH. Rank: Ordinary Seaman.
Service No: D/JX 292650. Date of Death: 29/01/1944. Age: 17.
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy. H.M.S. Spartan
Panel Reference: Panel 88, Column 1. Memorial: PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of John Allan Monk, and of Harriet Monk, of Euxton, Lancashire.

Trust this assists. Good luck!

[seadog]

Kevin, you have supplied an example of one of the pitfalls I alluded to in my last posting. It would also be interesting to learn exactly what criteria are to be applied in formulating the list of the dead for members will be aware that in the 1920`s when the WW1 memorials were first erected the possibility was that relatives were invited to put forward the names of the dead and there would be an arbitrary cut-off point after which the list was closed. No doubt such a cut-off date would not be in line with the CWGC ruling of WW1 - 31st August 1921 and WW2 - 31st December 1947 therefore it is possible that there are some dead who fall just outside of these dates and are not recorded on the CWGC database, if there are such cases will their names be included?. I am not in any way trying to as it were “muddy the waters” here but just trying to understand how a proposed new war memorial is to be created so long after the event and where none existed before.

Regards
Norman

[KevinBattle]

seadog, I have read your many postings and am well aware of your feelings on this subject.
I understand your concerns about changing the past, but whilst I sympathise my personal feeling is to ensure that NONE are forgotten.
With the sad loss, destruction etc of many specific religious denominations Memorials, due to decline in congregations, or factories offices etc no longer in business, some "local" men now no longer have a Memorial in existence bearing their Name(s). Their sacrifice however should not be lost even if "their" Church or workplace Memorial has been.

I don't feel the need to have stone Memorials recarved to include "omitted" Names, but a well produced Roll of Honour with laminated pages can be deposited with local authorities, churches and RBL Branches to ensure that those with a connection to the area may now be remembered and known for the people they were.

However, as was the case in the past, it has to be down to the consensus at that location as to how THEY wish to remember (or not). I just put the Names up where I can see an obvious connection and leave it to be decided locally as to what they want to do. So, I'm the one muddying their previously undisturbed waters!!

The "elephant in the room" is that these are "World War" Memorials and not many local Memorials contain Names of the Fallen in other conflicts or incidents, but that's outside GWF remit!!

[seadog]

Hi Kevin I appreciate the points that you have made which are as valid as any others made on this subject. This particular situation however is not concerned with names which for whatever reason have been omitted from a war memorial but the creation of an entirely new memorial bearing the names of the dead from conflicts dating from WW1 through to the present day. I have already said that I believe that this is a laudable project, he only thing that I would question is the actual mechanics of selecting and confirming the names of those who are to be recorded on a public memorial for posterity. What should be the criteria for the selection of such names and should due respect be given to the original concept which would most likely rely on such names being submitted by the families of the dead for inclusion. .Bearing in mind as well that in the 1920`s nobody could have anticipated the conflicts to come of which there are many.

Put simply who are we to select those who should appear on the memorial bearing in mind the passage of time since the end of WW1 and the selection criteria that will now be applied. It may well be that in this particular case the numbers are relatively few and so there may not be that much room for error, but consider for a moment a city the size of Bristol where there is understandably no public memorial listing all the names of the dead but a Cenotaph commemorating all citizens who have died in the service of their country. I know that if I was contemplating such a memorial as is being discussed here I would seriously consider separating the memorial from the ROH of the dead whilst also ensuring that those who served and survived were given due recognition on the new memorial itself.

Regards
Norman