17 replies to this topic

[Alan Tucker]

In Today's edition there is a book review of a new book by Frank McLynn 'The Road not taken'. The text includes....

Among the volunteers to fill in for strikers during the General Strike was Admiral Lord Jellicoe. When asked by recruiters if he had any previous experience Jellicoe replied 'I commanded the Grand Fleet'. 'Fleet of What' came the nonplussed answer.

[Jim Smithson]

Lovely - probably put him charge of a fleet of buses but he was reluctant to take them out of the depot!

Jim

[Stoppage Drill]

I had the honour of meeting his son, not long before he died about 4 or 5 years back. He was a man who had no trouble engaging the enemy closely.

[michaeldr]

In 1921 the Navy was involved in what today I suppose we would call Support of the Civil Power.

Lt. Louis Mountbatten was in charge of a platoon of about fifty-six ratings and hoped that they would not be used against “unfortunate people who were trying to obtain better conditions.” They were not used, and he returned to the Repulse

The affair ended very much less happily for Ludovic Kennedy's father. He was given a battalion of Royal Fleet Reservists “none had more than five years' service, 90 per cent were trade unionists of whom 200 were miners...”
When the reservists' discipline broke, [primarily because their living conditions were extremely poor] the situation was promptly and fairly handled by Kennedy, though his senior officers did not see it that way. After an inquiry and Court-Martial, Kennedy was reprimanded and his career ruined.
I think that his next command was also his last, when in 1939 he took the armed, ex-P & O liner, HMS Rawalpindi ('ancient' 6-inch guns) into action against the Scharhorst and the Gneisenau
see http://www.naval-his...s1939-11NOV.htm

[Moonraker]

Stoppage Drill, on 02 July 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

I had the honour of meeting his son, not long before he died about 4 or 5 years back. He was a man who had no trouble engaging the enemy closely.

Not sure if there's a double entendre here? Perusal of his CV reveals a very good WWII record and some other close encounters in the early 1970s, when I happened to be a junior press officer in his department at the time that he resigned as a Minister.

Moonraker

[Stoppage Drill]

Let's remember the WW2 record.

For the rest, as Hamlet said to the ghost - "Where wilt thou lead me? speak; I'll go no further."

[centurion]

Moonraker, on 03 July 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Not sure if there's a double entendre here? Perusal of his CV reveals a very good WWII record and some other close encounters in the early 1970s, when I happened to be a junior press officer in his department at the time that he resigned as a Minister.

Moonraker

Definitely knew the signal flags for Permission to lay alongside!

[MikB]

Can't believe folk are still sniping at Jellicoe after all this time, especially when later Admirals with very good battle records have said they'd pray for the good sense to act as he did.

He made the right deployment and put Scheer in the greatest difficulty - the intelligence and signalling failures that let the HSF escape were not Jellicoe's.

It needs no ghost, my lord, come from the grave
To tell us this.

Regards,
MikB

[centurion]

Apart from one comment by Jim I can see no sniping whatsover at Jellicoe of Jutland. Any risible comments have been at Jellicoe Jnr who was to put it mildly somewhat indiscreet when a minister.

[bill24chev]

I beleive Jellicoe was unluck at Jutland because the Grand Fleet did not meet Sheer until evening. The Senior officers at the Admiralty let him down by not understanding the intelligence avaialable from Room 40 which would have warned Jellicoe (and Beatty) of the whereabouts of the Geerman HSF and Hippers Battle cruisers and their tactics up to the GF coming into action would probably been different.. In the short space of time his fleet had in contact the GF severly damaged the German High seas Fleet, both physically and in moral, to a point that Sheer knew if they met again the German Fleet would be mauled.

Going back to the General strike  was the unrest in the reservists due to a desire not to be regardred as strike breaking black legx.

[Stoppage Drill]

Centurion said "Apart from one comment by Jim I can see no sniping whatsover at Jellicoe of Jutland. Any risible comments have been at Jellicoe Jnr who was to put it mildly somewhat indiscreet when a minister."

But a very brave man, and a hospitable host !

[michaeldr]

Quote from bill24chev
was the unrest in the reservists due to a desire not to be regardred as strike breaking black legx


Not as far as I can make out; 'They were not to break strikes but to prevent riots and protect property". Though how much of this message reached each and every reservist is impossible to tell. Kennedy jnr does say however that “As trade unionists they still nursed a suspicion that they might yet be called on to break the strikes of fellow unionists, and many were afraid of their reception on returning to civilian life. Had the men belonged to an active service battalion, few of these considerations would have arisen”


As I said earlier, the catalyst was their poor living conditions, including the feeling that they were to be away for longer than the three weeks which they were originally told would be their lot. At first they were billeted in a school, but were moved after two weeks to a box factory which was in an isolated position, four miles out of town and surrounded by barbed wire. This suggested a longer spell of service and was further seen as harsh, having no recreation facilities.

[centurion]

Stoppage Drill, on 03 July 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Centurion said "Apart from one comment by Jim I can see no sniping whatsover at Jellicoe of Jutland. Any risible comments have been at Jellicoe Jnr who was to put it mildly somewhat indiscreet when a minister."

But a very brave man, and a hospitable host !

So?

[Stoppage Drill]

I admire bravery and I'm grateful for personal kindness. So I don't care about his indiscretions.

[Jim Smithson]

Jellicoe junior was clearly a very brave individual but he never held higher command where a different style of courage is required.  My comments were not aimed at any individual courage of senior and therefore I am unsure of his son's inclusion in this thread being relevant.  My comment, meant as something of a jest, does have some basis. I am not sniping at his conduct in 1916, merely passing comment in a light-hearted (or so I thought) fashion. His negative influence in 1917 after being made First Sea Lord, leading ultimately to his dismissal was though, for me , another piece of evidence of a lack of that certain something that leaders at the highest level require.  It's a pity that every time someone makes a comment of a critical nature about a G.W. leader it is regarded as sniping.

Jim

[bill24chev]

I have had problems with what i thought were lighthearted quips in the past.

umless it is a thread that is obviously light hearted \\i now put one of the "smiley" faces in the post.

[Jim Smithson]

I did put a to give an impression of less than serious and it was the reply to Alan's original story from the Strike which was already, in itself, lighthearted.

Ah well.

Jim

[MikB]

Jim Smithson, on 04 July 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Jellicoe junior was clearly a very brave individual but he never held higher command where a different style of courage is required.  My comments were not aimed at any individual courage of senior and therefore I am unsure of his son's inclusion in this thread being relevant.  My comment, meant as something of a jest, does have some basis. I am not sniping at his conduct in 1916, merely passing comment in a light-hearted (or so I thought) fashion. His negative influence in 1917 after being made First Sea Lord, leading ultimately to his dismissal was though, for me , another piece of evidence of a lack of that certain something that leaders at the highest level require.  It's a pity that every time someone makes a comment of a critical nature about a G.W. leader it is regarded as sniping.

Jim

Oh, I think you were - suggesting that Jellicoe Snr was unwilling to commit the fleet to battle.

Anyway, whose T should he have crossed with a line of buses?  

Regards,
MikB