8 replies to this topic

[jbw541]

Hello,
  I`m trying to track down the names of the surviving sailors of HMS Mary Rose, sunk 17th Oct 1917. I know that at first it was reported that all hands where lost, but, I know that some survived (10 I think?). One being, John Frederick Bailey J3979. Any help with the other surviving crew members would be much appreciated.
   Regards. Joe.

[NigelS]

The Times of 14th Feb 1918  in a report, The Last Fight Of The Mary Rose, given as "compiled from official sources" gives, the names of several crew members; of these three, including Bailey, do not appear to be listed in the 86 men commemorated by the CWGC, so appear to have survived.

Able Seaman Bailey

As the German light cruisers sped past, two able seamen (Able Seaman French and Able Seamen Bailey), who alone survived among the torpedo tubes' crew, on their own initiative, laid and fired the remaining torpedo. Able Seamman French was killed immediately, and Able Seaman Bailey badly wounded.

...Able Seaman Bailey, who despite severe shrapnel wounds in the leg persisted in taking his turn at the oar, is also specially mentioned for an invincible light heartedness throughout.

Sub-Lieutenant Marsh, RNVR

All guns, with the exception of the after one, were out of action, and their crews killed or wounded; but the after gun continued in action under the command of  sub-Lieutenant Marsh, RNVR, as long as the gun would bear.

Sub-Lieutenant JRD Freeman RN

...but the handful of survivors, in charge of Sub-Lieutenant JRD Freeman RN, on the Carley raft, fell in some hours later with a lifeboat belonging to one  of the ships of the convoy. Sailing and rowing, they made the Norwegian coast some 48 hours later, and were tended with the utmost kindness by the Norwegian authorities. All survivors unite in testifying to the cheerful courage of the surviving officer Sub-Lieutenant JRD Freeman, throughout the last phase of the ordeal. Able Seaman Bailey, who despite severe shrapnel wounds in the leg persisted in taking his turn at the oar, is also specially mentioned for an invincible light heartedness throughout.

Further evidence of Freeman's & Marsh's survival, although not conclusive, is given in The Times of 8th August '18 where the award of a Distinguished Service Cross for Freeman, and a Mentioned in Dispatches for Marsh is given without mention of either having been killed.

Distinguished Service Cross:

Act. Lt. J.R.D. Freeman, RN Gallantly performed his duty in charge of a 4in. gun in HMS Mary Rose while in action against superior force

Mentioned in Despatches

...Sub-Lt. F.W. Marsh RNVR...

The London Gazette  of August 7th 1918 gives  full details of the honours awarded for this action (Click)

Hope this is of some use.

NigelS

[KevinBattle]

Using Geoffs Search Engine, there are 84 recorded on CWGC. I also checked other Countries, but no others found.
CWGC also show Stoker Fairweathers date of death as 7th October, presumably a typo....
If the ships complement was 88 (perhaps higher for War complement?) then there may be at least one other survivor......
Whilst contemporary accounts talk of 10 survivors in total, perhaps 94 or so would have been her complement in wartime?

[NigelS]

KevinBattle, on 02 July 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Using Geoffs Search Engine, there are 84 recorded on CWGC. I also checked other Countries, but no others found.
CWGC also show Stoker Fairweathers date of death as 7th October, presumably a typo....
If the ships complement was 88 (perhaps higher for War complement?) then there may be at least one other survivor......
Whilst contemporary accounts talk of 10 survivors in total, perhaps 94 or so would have been her complement in wartime?

Strange I got (and still get ), also using Geoff's SE,  86 including Fairweather;  Fairweather's death given as the  7th might be an error, it could also be that he'd met  with an accident on that date. The Times reported the loss of the entire crew of '88'  on the 22nd October; later reporting continued with '88' but didn't mention the loss of the entire crew again; Although survivors are mentioned I can't say that I've seen any of The Times reporting giving that there were ten, so it would be interesting to know where this figure originated. (Frustratingly, The Times 14th Feb 1918  report, The Last Fight Of The Mary Rose, which is late enough for the correct numbers of losses to be known, doesn't give the figure and only mentions a 'handful' of survivors)
I don't know enough about the crewing of this type of vessel, but wonder whether the discrepancy between the  contemporary reporting  of 88 and the number recorded by the CWGC today , if not down to reporting errors, might be explained by the use of non naval personal (who wouldn't qualify for CWGC commemoration) for cooking and similar duties.

NigelS

[jbw541]

KevinBattle, on 02 July 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Using Geoffs Search Engine, there are 84 recorded on CWGC. I also checked other Countries, but no others found.
CWGC also show Stoker Fairweathers date of death as 7th October, presumably a typo....
If the ships complement was 88 (perhaps higher for War complement?) then there may be at least one other survivor......
Whilst contemporary accounts talk of 10 survivors in total, perhaps 94 or so would have been her complement in wartime?

Hello, Thanks very much for your help. I`ve read in a book (Seahounds) and somewhere on the www that there were 10 survivors, but I`m not too sure as to exactly how many sailors there were in total.
   Regards. Joe Woodman.

[jbw541]

NigelS, on 02 July 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

Strange I got (and still get ), also using Geoff's SE,  86 including Fairweather;  Fairweather's death given as the  7th might be an error, it could also be that he'd met  with an accident on that date. The Times reported the loss of the entire crew of '88'  on the 22nd October; later reporting continued with '88' but didn't mention the loss of the entire crew again; Although survivors are mentioned I can't say that I've seen any of The Times reporting giving that there were ten, so it would be interesting to know where this figure originated. (Frustratingly, The Times 14th Feb 1918  report, The Last Fight Of The Mary Rose, which is late enough for the correct numbers of losses to be known, doesn't give the figure and only mentions a 'handful' of survivors)
I don't know enough about the crewing of this type of vessel, but wonder whether the discrepancy between the  contemporary reporting  of 88 and the number recorded by the CWGC today , if not down to reporting errors, might be explained by the use of non naval personal (who wouldn't qualify for CWGC commemoration) for cooking and similar duties.

NigelS

Hello Nigel, Thank you for your help. Can I ask, where can I get a copy of The Times relating to the Last Fight of the Mary Rose? Able Seaman J F Bailey (J3979) DSM was my Grandfather and Able Seaman Albert French (KIA) mentioned in dispatches, was his good friend. I`m interested in any info on this action. I`m trying to piece the story together so that it can be passed on to my nephews. Thanks very much.
  Regards. Joe Woodman.

[Malcolm]

http://www.naval-his...s1917-10Oct.htm

May be of use.
Aye
Malcolm

[jbw541]

Malcolm, on 08 July 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

http://www.naval-his...s1917-10Oct.htm

May be of use.
Aye
Malcolm

Thanks very much.
   Regards. Joe.

[NigelS]

Joe, assuming you're in the UK, many public libraries (and those of educational establishments) offer free internet access to The Times Digital Archive (Provided by Gale Cengage learning Click) which allows copies of the newspaper between 1785 and 2006 to be searched and viewed at either a local  library or at home by entering your library card details. Your local library's website should give information as to whether it provides this service and details of how to access the website.

NigelS