10 replies to this topic

[Fokad]

Hello,
My russian great father, now deceased, told that he had been rescued by british soldiers when he was in Western Siberia in june-august 1918. However, to my knowledge, the first british unit that arrived in this area was the Suffolk's armoured train under the command of Captain Bath, Royal Marines, in november 1918.

My question is:
Could british soldiers be actually present in Western Siberia during the spring-summer 1918, for instance with a diplomatic mission?
I have supposed that my great father had been rescued by soldiers from another country. The Czech legion and, possibly, polish units were present in Western Siberia at this period of time. Could these men be mistaken for british soldiers (uniforms ....)?

I thank you in advance
Fokad

[sotonmate]

Fokad

There are three references at our National Archives which might help your questions,though whether you can get to see them might be more of a problem ! I searched under the WO (War Office) series of papers and found these:

WO95/5487. War Diary North Russia and Siberia-Order of Battle.1918 to 1919.
WO106/680.British Military Mission with Czechoslovak Forces in France,Italy and Siberia-Jun to Aug 1918,and,
WO153/801. Situation Russia and Siberia 29 Jul 1918 to 20 Jan 1921.

There is a fair chance you will learn something of your needs from one or more of these papers.

Sotonmate

[Terry_Reeves]

Fokad

Yes they were there and you will find the details you require in chapter two of With the "Die Hards" in Siberia by Colonel John Ward.  The publication is available as a free e book here:

http://www.gutenberg...478782&pageno=1

TR

[Fokad]

Thank you for your help.
Archives might help; unfortunately without visiting the National Archives, it is difficult to know what the files are refering to.
So far I have found no indication of allied soldiers being in Western Siberia in mid 1918. With the "Die Hards" in Siberia only reports the presence of British forces on the Ussuri front, in the far east of Russia.

[centurion]

It appears that there was a British military mission in Siberia as early as March 1918

[Fokad]

Would you have informations about this military mission?

[centurion]

Only that there was one and it travelled by train. There was a post on the forum some time ago by a member whose great aunt had been in Siberia at the time (passport stamps to prove it) and had left a few photos including one, posted on the forum, showing a couple of soldiers from the mission. She had dated the photo as March 1918. Apparently there was also a photo of the "Military Mission Carriage" (railway). A military mission would be quite small.

[centurion]

I think that it was  the "Special Military Mission to Manchuria and Siberia" which took place in March 1918. There appers very little about it but it seems to have been a joint British/US effort possibly paving the way for the larger intervention later in the year. I think the NA has stuff on it but not available online.

[Fokad]

Thank you Centurion,
I shall try to contact this member.
However, in march 1918 Bolshevik and British Governments were in bad terms and British officials were persona non grata in Russia. Thus, the possibility exists that the mission was, in fact,   escaping from Western Russia to Vladivostok.

[centurion]

Fokad, on 03 July 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

Thank you Centurion,
I shall try to contact this member.
However, in march 1918 Bolshevik and British Governments were in bad terms and British officials were persona non grata in Russia. Thus, the possibility exists that the mission was, in fact,   escaping from Western Russia to Vladivostok.

I believe that the Special Mission was to the White Russian (military) government in the region (as were subsequent missions) and not the Bolsheviks

[flintwich]

In the book Die Hards, which I happen to be reading at the moment. Col Ward leads the 25th Middlesex on armed trains from, initially from Vladivostok to Omsk.
Capt Bath is mentioned earlier in the book but so far, there are 4 named Russian political people rescued from Omsk ; Avkzentieff, Argunov, Rogovsky and Zenzinoff.
There were Czechs, Cossacks and Japanese in the mission.
Hope this helps.
Al