12 replies to this topic

[NigelS]

Well at least ones believed to have been issued to him for a short while, even they weren't  actually carried by him Click

I'll refrain from any further comment on these as it's a subject I know nothing about!

NigelS

[rjaydee]

£4,000 to £6,000 money to burn.

[CROONAERT]

Wonder why he would have been getting issued with an obsolete pattern disc in December 1916 when most soldiers would have received replacements of the newer patterns? (and why two, when usually only one was issued).

I certainly smell a rat here, and expecially so when considering that the first fake 'Hitler tags' were produced in some quantity in the 1930s (and intended as mere souvenirs rather than to fool anyone).

Here's an image of a modern fake (that is marketed as such and sold quite cheaply by the American company that makes them... based (I think) on one of the 1930's 'originals' in their collection). Odd that the hand stamped numbers on the auction site tag even contain the same 'errors'!

Anyway, each to their own, I suppose (and if i could afford to splash out for a Hitler tag, I'd be wanting his perforated 1916 pattern version anyway!)

Attached Files

•  Hitler tag.jpg   6.3K   3 downloads

[CROONAERT]

Just been comparing the two with the modern acknowledged fake... the numbers are in exactly the same layout! (and even the '4' could be an adulterated '1' !!!!).... also, how could two tags which supposedly contain at least six hand-stamped numbers be so exactly the same as each other (and also the same as the modern fake)? Nice piece of Nazi memorabilia at best - far more modern at worst IMO

(and, as an aside (and in disagreement with the write-up), Hitler actually was in 1 Komp ...  from Sept.1914 (he only moved to III komp on 27th October 1915). The era of that pattern tag would have been during his 1st Company days, so the '1' is actually correct!)

[AOK4]

If the offered identity disc would be real, I don't see why this disc of Gefreiter Herbert Kühnert would be worth 4.000 £... He was the one with number 148 in 4/BRIR 16.

Although he was a Doctor in Philosophy...

[TRAJAN]

CROONAERT, on 04 July 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

...Just been comparing the two with the modern acknowledged fake... the numbers are in exactly the same layout! (and even the '4' could be an adulterated '1' !!!!)....

Note also that the top '4' is in a quite different style from the bottom one. Yep, looks suspiciously like a '1' that has been not-so-subtly altered. Also, rather odd that Ernst Schmidt was so perceptive and had sufficient foresight as to keep these for the future, knowing that his mate Herr H. would become a prominent political figure. Moreover, even odder that our Ernst should dot-inscribe them with his initials, and one of them with the year: a dot-inscription of this type would generally strike one as work done at the time, 'in the trenches', long before the late 1920's-early 1930's when Herr H, was becoming a well-known public figure - and at which time one would think that Ernst would have had these professionally engraved.

Trajan

[CROONAERT]

I believe that the original disc upon which these are based was also more of an elongated eliptical shape than the 1930's and modern copies.

Funny thing is that there actually is some value in the 1930's discs... a couple of hundred quid at the most extreme (as opposed to £4000!!!!). The modern copies retail at between about £10 (or £7.50 if buying in bulk!) and $25.

Dave

[CROONAERT]

CROONAERT, on 04 July 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I believe that the original disc upon which these are based was also more of an elongated eliptical shape than the 1930's and modern copies.

Different unit, I know, but this example is more akin to the correct shape and markings of Hitler's M1878 pattern disc.........

Attached Files

•  Bavarian landwehr.jpg   43.06K   1 downloads

[Joe Sweeney]

This has peaked my curiosity on what the eventual outcome of this auction will be.

Hopefully a no bid.

Joe sweeney

[CROONAERT]

Joe Sweeney, on 05 July 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

This has peaked my curiosity on what the eventual outcome of this auction will be.

Hopefully a no bid.

Joe sweeney

...or I get it for as tenner!

(Personally, I think its an adulterated 1930's copy disc worth, maybe, a couple of hundred quid (less actually, as its probably been altered).... well worth a bid if you're into that type of thing, but steer well clear of four digit numbers for it!!!!)

[AOK4]

Hello? Doesn't anyone get the point that A.H. never was in the 4th Company of BRIR 16, not even the 4th Ersatz Company? This particular ID disc, if it would be real, would have belonged to Herbert Kühnert, who was No. 148 in the 4th Company of BRIR 16 (wounded on 29th October 1914 near Koelberg)...

Although Kühnert has some historical meaning: http://www.archive-i...estand&id=26046

[CROONAERT]

AOK4, on 05 July 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Hello? Doesn't anyone get the point that A.H. never was in the 4th Company of BRIR 16, not even the 4th Ersatz Company?

yes, Jan, ... but , Hitlers,  Kühnert's or whoever's details are on it, I don't believe it to be a genuine tag anyway (and the company numbering has almost certainly  been changed from '1' to '4' anyway... for what reason , I don't know)

Dave

Attached Files

•  2.jpg   43.87K   1 downloads

[CROONAERT]

Anyone any idea whether this duffer disc ever sold at the auction? If so, what did it finally go for? (£25, £30? )

Dave