75 replies to this topic

[Stoppage Drill]

Post #34 - bolt action Martini Henrys ?

[Marshal Ney]

hesmond, on 14 July 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Oh and M Ney recommend the With some guts behind it ! THE book on Zulu, best movie book ever , all the facts , making of, attitudes at the time, and its anti war slant ? which as a 7 year old you could have fooled me , went twice in the one week , and the actor who played Hook was in fact ex British Army short service commision officer ?But fo a real anti estableshment anti war ,anti everything got to love Tony Richardsons 1968 Charge of the Light Brigade ?

Hesmond where do I start on this one?

How about “That’s my boy Hooky!” as he wields a bayonet at a Zulu Warrior with the fever ridden Sergeant urging him on in the sick bay. Many of us have known Hooky in life in a sick bay or sick certificate swinging the lead.
James Booth was also in that Famous “Jazz Boat” film.
I still don’t see Zulu as an anti-war film. But there you have it, we all have our opinions.

Charge of The Light Brigade portrayed to me the ridicule of how Army discipline at that time went to the limits. The changing of tents and if I remember correctly, the whipping for it, the marching in time with colours and flags across a desert with the ultimate of disease and thirst. The Crimea was seeking and searching for another Waterloo, but this time no Blucher.
But then we must remember that the fatal mistake and those brave men who charged and in the film on return a man saying to Cardigan, “Go again Sir”, believe the reply was ”Not today”.
Another anti-war film was The Victors, to name one of many, maybe more so than CLB.

Thanks for the recommendation of the book.
MN  

[Steven Broomfield]

Stoppage Drill, on 14 July 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Post #34 - bolt action Martini Henrys ?

Huh. As any fule kno, they were belt-fed.

[Stoppage Drill]

Marshal Ney, on 14 July 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

How about “That’s my boy Hooky!” as he wields a bayonet at a Zulu Warrior with the fever ridden Sergeant urging him on in the sick bay. Many of us have known Hooky in life in a sick bay or sick certificate swinging the lead.
MN  

Peut être non, mon maréchal, le  'Ook vraiment était un sanglant Methodist Lay Preacher et Teetotaller.

[Marshal Ney]

Stoppage Drill, on 14 July 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Peut être non, mon maréchal, le  'Ook vraiment était un sanglant Methodist Lay Preacher et Teetotaller.

Maybe not, my marshal, 'Ook really was a Methodist Lay Preacher and bloody teetotaler
Stoppage Drill you rogue
Correction "Thats my boy Hook!"
You test my memory thus.
MN

[PJA]

Stoppage Drill, on 14 July 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Post #34 - bolt action Martini Henrys ?

Oh dear !  This is embarrassing.  Were they Martini - Henry rifles ?  Were they breech loaders ?  Whatever they were, they added to that "wall of sound" that made Zulu excel. I'll go off and Google to find out more about those rifles.

Phil (PJA)

[4thGordons]

PJA, on 14 July 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Oh dear !  This is embarrassing.  Were they Martini - Henry rifles ?  Were they breech loaders ?  Whatever they were, they added to that "wall of sound" that made Zulu excel. I'll go off and Google to find out more about those rifles.

Phil (PJA)

Save you the trouble:
(this is a Martini, although it is actually a Martini-Enfield in this case)

 ME303a.jpg   19.18K   0 downloads


It may be one of the signs of the apocalypse but I agree with Torygraph reading Mr Broomfield on almost all of this! (and we have been here before...see earlier threads on this)

This has nothing to do with accuracy/anoraks etc .... it is just a poor film.
Weir's Gallipoli as full of inaccuracies and stereotypes, myths, and Gibsons as it is ... is an excellent film.

There is one (1) thing I quite liked in Passchendaele and it took me a second, painful watch to notice it -- and that was the way several of the iconic photographic images of WWI were recreated as scenes in the film.
I came to it with no expectations...and was still disappointed.

I had the opportunity to screen lots or "war" films recently with a group of students and then we dissected them a bit -- was great fun and we watched some less well known ones too.... anyone seen Mangal Pandey (The Rising)?

Anyone notice who plays the Zulu chief who salutes the soldiers from the hilltop at the end of Zulu.....

Chris

Edit: and here is a Martini-Henry
 Martini-Henry.jpg   17.92K   1 downloads

[PJA]

Thanks, Chris.

Am I right in saying that Butholezi, the Zulu chief, was one of the extras in the film ?  And, if so, is he the guy you allude to ?

Phil (PJA)

[Marshal Ney]

Holy Smoke the Batman commentator has arrived on Zulu but see "Thats my boy Hook your a Soldier now!"

[hesmond]

Yes the Chief was in the movie , but must recomend to every one the book ,and its on Amazon "With some guts behind it " cant recommend enough ,the best book on any movie, interviews with all concerned all the historical bits , the howlers ,what was shot in UK and all the SA bits , and yes the whole anti war bit , and Reynolds quote is one of the bits ? , on Charge ,the rights to the main book back then The Reason Why? was owned by a well known British actor , and he took Richardson to court as copying the book John Osbourne did the screneplay , and to pay off our peved actor he was given a role in the movie , which was later edited out .The BFFI have produced  a book on the movie ,mainly concerned with Richardsons message at the time ,and all the problems with dealing with Johnny Turk ,not much on the historical issues , thats in a early copy of Military Illustrated . And on the anti war movie front old Dickie Attenbrough was quoted as Bridge to Far as being an anti war movie ? think i would live it to Victors ,and Paths of Glory ? Zulu came in under buget all the props sold in SA and UK , the props for Charge were dumped in the sea , including the cannon ,uniforms and colours ! and a beer for any one who come up with British actor who had the movie rights !

[Stoppage Drill]

PJA, on 14 July 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Oh dear !  This is embarrassing.  Were they Martini - Henry rifles ?  Were they breech loaders ?  Whatever they were, they added to that "wall of sound" that made Zulu excel. I'll go off and Google to find out more about those rifles.

Phil (PJA)

Yes, they were MH, which was a breech loader of course, but the action is lever operated hinged block, not bolt.

And "Do yer button up lad. Where do you think you are ?"

[maxi]

I have just watched 'Passchendaele' and really enjoyed it as a wartime love story. Good battle scenes and lovely Canadian scenery. But then I am easily pleased.

[Steven Broomfield]

4thGordons, on 15 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Save you the trouble:
(this is a Martini, although it is actually a Martini-Enfield in this case)

ME303a.jpg


It may be one of the signs of the apocalypse but I agree with Torygraph reading Mr Broomfield on almost all of this!

This has nothing to do with accuracy/anoraks etc .... it is just a poor film.
Weir's Gallipoli as full of inaccuracies and stereotypes, myths, and Gibsons as it is ... is an excellent film.

And I agree with you on this: I suppose the difference is that Gallipoli was directed by a proper film director, rather than a TV star. Not many of the latter make the transfer (I think Clint Eastwood is the only one I could name). I'm perfectly happy to suspend belief for a good movie, but Passchendaele was a bad film all round.

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

Steven Broomfield, on 15 July 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

And I agree with you on this: I suppose the difference is that Gallipoli was directed by a proper film director, rather than a TV star. Not many of the latter make the transfer (I think Clint Eastwood is the only one I could name).

Charlie Chaplin, Woody Allen, Ron Howard, Ben Affleck, George Clooney, Mel Gibson...........

[hesmond]

Orson Wells ? and quite a few more ,as all aware Gibsons issue seems to have always been his anti English ,pro USA stance ,also Braveheart was sited in a muder trial back when released in Scotland after a young thug walked out of the movie heard a teenager with a English accent, picked a fight with him and kicked him in the head screaming Freedom !
The actor who had the movie rights to The Reason why ? was Laurence Harvey ,and must admit Passchendaele is rubbish ,i think you can watch it once but after that you only have yourself to blame !

[Steven Broomfield]

THE SHINY SEVENTH, on 15 July 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Charlie Chaplin, Woody Allen, Ron Howard, Ben Affleck, George Clooney, Mel Gibson...........

Well, allr ight then, but I detest Chaplin, I don't like Allen, Ron Howard hardly stretches the intellect, I've never seen a movie directed by Clooney, and I'm not convinced Gibson's movies are necessarily a recommendation.

There: wriggled out of

[THE SHINY SEVENTH]

Steven Broomfield, on 16 July 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Well, allr ight then, but I detest Chaplin, I don't like Allen, Ron Howard hardly stretches the intellect, I've never seen a movie directed by Clooney, and I'm not convinced Gibson's movies are necessarily a recommendation.

There: wriggled out of

Must admit, ive never really got Woody Allen myself, but "I detest Chaplin"!!! Surely not Mr.B?

[Marshal Ney]

So I finally watched Passchendaele and came to the conclusion that ;-
(1) The British Recruiting Officer was a ---- and let the side down in the film.
(2) Although a film, I was reminded that I am so glad I was not of that generation as a young man sitting in a trench. Nearly 100 years later the Great War is still spoken about and sometimes reinacted but nobody,nobody, can ever imagine what it was really like unless you were there.

Keeping my head down as the shells and bullets fly over. Gas helmet at the ready.

MN

[kmcgee]

Marshal Ney, on 18 July 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

So I finally watched Passchendaele and came to the conclusion that ;-
(1) The British Recruiting Officer was a ---- and let the side down in the film.
(2) Although a film, I was reminded that I am so glad I was not of that generation as a young man sitting in a trench. Nearly 100 years later the Great War is still spoken about and sometimes reinacted but nobody,nobody, can ever imagine what it was really like unless you were there.

Keeping my head down as the shells and bullets fly over. Gas helmet at the ready.

MN

Watch out, any minute now you will be getting a message repeating that it was a "bad" film.

Kevin

[Broznitsky]

kmcgee, on 18 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Watch out, any minute now you will be getting a message repeating that it was a "bad" film.

One quess as to who the originator of the repetitive message will be.

[Ian C]

I have always said I don't need anyone else to tell me how good or bad a film is, if I enjoy it then I couldn't give a monkeys for anyone else's opinion. One day a couple of years ago I watched the Blair Witch Project as I had nothing else to do and it had had rave reviews, it is undoubtedly the worst film I have ever seen and to this day I am at a loss as to why it got the praise that it did!!

I watched Passchendaele for what it is, a work of fiction based loosely on an event in the Great War, not an historically correct reenactment of the battle and found it an entertaining way to spend a couple of hours.

IanC

[Steven Broomfield]

THE SHINY SEVENTH, on 16 July 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

"I detest Chaplin"!!! Surely not Mr.B?

Afraid so. Mawkish misogyny if you ask me.

[Ken Santa Fe]

Marshal Ney, on 18 July 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I was reminded that I am so glad I was not of that generation as a young man sitting in a trench. Nearly 100 years later the Great War is still spoken about and sometimes reinacted but nobody,nobody, can ever imagine what it was really like unless you were there.

Having spent much of the last year trying to watch every bit of film I can about TGW I'm starting to believe that the visual media simply cannot get across the absolute squalor, terror, confusion etc... If it did or attempted to a great degree it would be unwatchable. I realized this again this week watching Beneath Hill 60. Both that movie and Passchendaele are conveyed in much greater depth by Peter Barton's book, but books appeal to a much smaller sample these days.

[Marshal Ney]

Ken Santa Fe, on 18 July 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Having spent much of the last year trying to watch every bit of film I can about TGW I'm starting to believe that the visual media simply cannot get across the absolute squalor, terror, confusion etc... If it did or attempted to a great degree it would be unwatchable. I realized this again this week watching Beneath Hill 60. Both that movie and Passchendaele are conveyed in much greater depth by Peter Barton's book, but books appeal to a much smaller sample these days.

Hi Ken Santa Fe,
For those that get post 68 congratulations, I think you got it.
For those that question the film I only make two observations as indicated in item (1) and (2) on post 68.
Oh and thank you Canada.

Regards MN

[John Gilinsky]

Firstly this movie is a movie.

Secondly this is a CANADIAN mass market commercial film for the Canadian market primarilly if not exclusively designed to ENTERTAIN - accurate information, historically correct portrayals and authenticity are NOT high priorities if priorities at all given the commercial venture of movie making.

Thirdly the many posts above dealing with pre-1914 period set films made by very very different production crew backgrounds are not fair to directly simplistically compare with the Canadian Passchendaele production.

Fourthly tendetious arguments about no one understanding today how awful the front lines were in the war are repetitively circular at least.  "War is Hell!"

Fifthly criticizing cinematic stereotypes relates to point 4 above as practically EVERY film every made has stereotypes and superficial characters and superficial characterizations - which film has MORE or HIGHER quality or LOWER quality stereotyped characters, eh?

John