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Posted 13 July 2012 - 01:17 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:55 pm
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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:33 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:57 pm
Interesting. Oozes sympathy.
Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:09 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:45 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:41 pm
Hunter Bunter has been said to be the model for the general in Sassoon's poem
'Good-morning; good-morning!' the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of 'em dead,
And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
'He's a cheery old card,' grunted Harry and Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.
He certainly seems to have been more than usually incompetent and his plan of attack at the Somme did for a lot more than Harry and Jack. The phrase "Casualties, what do I care about casualties?" has been attributed to him.
If this example from a letter from Cuthbert Headlam to his wife is typical he was not respected by his officers
"I am a wee bit below par today as last night I felt it my duty to go to see the Serjeants' Mess after dinner - which of course meant drinking a lot of filth and smoking a lot of muck. . . so this morning I let myself off Hunter-Weston's farcical parade. He inspected everyone and made an oration standing on a chair. . . The whole thing would have been ludicrous, but this morning was bitterly cold and I did not fancy standing about for nearly an hour watching this madman and listening to his feeble remarks. My masterly manoeuvre of remaining in bed until the show was over has been much admired."
He does seem to have been fond of spit and polish
"Feb 23rd.1918 A dud day. Under pressure from Christopher I went to pay an official call on Hunter Western (Hunter Bunter) commanding the 8th. Corps. The H.Q. was magnificent, gleaming with polished buttons and boots." Edward Packe's diary of World War I
However "The Butcher of Helles" does appear to have been a comparatively recent appellation and I suspect from a single place (as all the references to this seem to be quoting a common but unamed source). The soldiers of his time do not seem to have been fond of such histrionic phrases and if they were derogatory probably used a more down to earth but unprintable set of words.
Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:32 pm
Facebook users may find this page on Hunter-Weston to be handy. https://www.facebook...237007103034813 It may even answer the original question regarding a nickname.
Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:41 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:01 pm
Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:45 pm
The phrase "Casualties, what do I care about casualties?" has been attributed to him.
Hunter-Weston was against an advance in the dark. He had lost too many company commanders, he said. The men might get lost. Throughout his time at Gallipoli, Hunter-Weston always wanted to do things within bankers' hours. Ten o'clock was a good time to start and eleven even better; six in the evening was a good time to finish. Hamilton deferred to him again. According to Hamilton, Hunter-Weston thought it best to blaze away freely with artillery and to "trust to our bayonets when we get in". Hamilton and Hunter-Weston ended up planning an old-fashioned battle. The Greeks outside Troy in 1184 BC might have thought it guileless.
Hunter-Weston pushed on the next day. Plan A having failed the day before, he did the logical thing and used it again.
Plan A having failed twice, Hunter-Weston naturally gave it a third chance.
Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:51 pm
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:11 am
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:07 pm
I'd find this ............ more relevant if you actually addressed the points made rather than attacking me in person. I'd point out that Dr Anthony Francis Seldon MA, PhD, FRSA, MBA, FRHistS who wrote the piece as well as being Head Master of Wellington is in addition a well respected historian.
Now Centurion are you willing to allow your reputaton for ever more to be defined by the above summary culled from a minor public school tour briefing? Is this the height of academic rigour that we can expect from you? Are their no nuances in the decisions taken? No external influences? Were the Germans in any way involved in the fighting that followed? Was crater fighting in any way a problem?
Tom Tulloch Marshall's Liar Pete
Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:39 pm
Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:49 pm
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:04 pm