10 replies to this topic

[Lizzielogs]

I am an absolute novice with this part of genealogy but would like any advice on tracing my grandfather's war records.
On his marriage certificate on June 10th 1916 he was listed as 'Air Mechanic RNAS' and on my fathers birth certificate a year later the full version 'Air Mechanic Royal Naval Air Service'. He was born in 1892 in Nottingham, Nottinghamshire and on the 1911 census when he was 18 he was an apprentice joiner, he therefore must have enlisted some time in the five years between then and his marriage in 1916. Not much to go on is it?
Family history has it he was a bit of a rebel and jumped ship sometime during the war. Fact is he left his wife and son and bigamously married a Maori woman in the 30's dying in Aukland in 1970, I only saw him on one occasion in the 60's but would like to know more.
Help anyone please??

Many regards Lizzielogs

[Stebie9173]

Can you let us know his name, please?


It makes things slightly easier!


Steve.

[Lizzielogs]

Stebie9173, on 22 July 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Can you let us know his name, please?


It makes things slightly easier!


Steve.

Ha, ha, ha!! Sorry Steve, I know his name and I thought all of you should too!!

Charles Henry Hand is the boy in question!

[Stebie9173]

It is surprising how many times that happens!

The Royal Naval Air Service was the Navy part of the air force, that along with the Royal Flying Corps (the Army part) joined together on 1st April 1918 to become the Royal Air Force. A Royal Air Force muster roll is online and shows the following:

RAF Number: 208075; Name: Hand C H; Date of joining: Feb-18

http://www.britishme.../files/r15.html

RAF numbers were apparently the man's old RNAS number +200000, so his old RNAS number should have been F8075.



Steve.

[Stebie9173]

The first part of his records (RNAS) are on Documents Online:


Description
Name Hand, Charles Henry
Official Number: F8075
Place of Birth: Saint Anns, Nottinghamshire
Date (of birth) 29 March 1892
Catalogue reference ADM 188/576
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 8001-8500
Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference

http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1


These can be downloaded for £3.50



His later RAF records are held at the National Archives on a big A2 size sheet under reference:

AIR 79/1871/208075 Name: Charles Henry Hand. [1918-1928]

These are stored in a box which is referenced as: AIR 79/1871


The 1918-1928 dates are the dates of the record type only and are not the dates of the man' service.



Steve.

[Lizzielogs]

Thank you Steve I have paid my £3.50 and now have the document, the fact that I cant read it or understand most of it is totally immaterial! I shall have to consult your knowledge further.
It looks like he was training first of all at HMS President II (Westgate)??  August 1916 . ? 1917  and then at Daedalus (Manston) ?? Feb 1918 - ? 1918  which I gather are both land based training establishments. Then a note to say discharged to the RAF. Interesting to see his character is VG but his ability is only Sat !!
I assume this meant he didn't get to fly during the war as it ended in 1918 or would that be in the second record you mention?
I must be a complete numpty when it comes to the National Archives and can't for the life of me find any reference to AIR 79/1871in or out of a box!!
Help me again please. (On all my old school reports it said 'could do better' and I think this is another of those occasions!!)

At least one of my questions has been answered I wondered how a boy from Nottinghamshire would have met my Gran who was a Westgate Kent lady born and bred - he was stationed there.

[Lizzielogs]

Perseverence has prevailed and I have kicked the National Archives into touch. Just ordering the record now!

[DavidB]

VG Sat is a standard navy classification if you are not a naughty boy and do your work satisfactorily.

[Lizzielogs]

rgartillery, on 22 July 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

VG Sat is a standard navy classification if you are not a naughty boy and do your work satisfactorily.

It's nice to know he saved being a naughty boy till after he had served King and country!

[Stebie9173]

The RAF records (National Archives reference AIR79") are basically big sheets of paper folded into a box (multiple sheets to a box) which is stored in the depths of the National Archives building at Kew in London. The Catalogue index is online but the records are not.

Hopefully this link will take you to the link to the reference on the old "Catalogue" system:

http://www.nationala...&accessmethod=0


and this on the new "Discovery" index system:

http://discovery.nat...s?uri=C12250785


Whilst these records are not online, you can sometimes get them sent to you by e-mail/post etc. though the system is very dependent on the time it takes for the staff at the National Archives to find things. There is an order button on the second link that will be at least worth giving a try!

If you do order via that method, make sure you make it clear which record you want and not the whole box!


In the case of the records you have seen the first reference is the "ship" (which includes land bases) that administers the man's pay (e.g. HMS President II, HMS Daedalus) whilst the 2nd reference is the "ship" that the man was actually posted to.




Steve.

[Lizzielogs]

Thank you again Steve, I managed to navigate my way there last night and have ordered an extimate of cost for the one record I need. The page indicates I can wait up to 10 days for my reply, as I live in Spain I am well used to the mañana system so I sits and waits !