11 replies to this topic

[dean1]

The old guy next door but one from me appeared out of his shed and gave me these !
 Bayonets.jpg   42.23K   11 downloads

I know from Googling roughly what I have but thought you guys might offer more ? Also what are they worth ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The top one is a No. 4 MK II for a Lee Enfield, WW2 and into the 50's?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The one with the 'hook' a Gras 1874, I can only see a very faint number? on the 'hook', also believe it was the model that was used as an earth for telegraphy?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the blade of the next one is a broad arrow, to the left a crown with T6? with an E under, the number 24 to the right of the broad arrow.
Under the broad arrow a crown with T6 E again, below this a X, to the left of the X a crown with ?D with an E under, to the right of the X a crown with 2?D with an E under.
On the other side of the blade is a crown with GR under, then the date 1907, with the number 2 under to the left and the number 15 to the right.
Can just see the word 'Sanderson' below this.
On the tang a number 5 and what looks like an upside down L under it. Nothing on scabbard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The smaller one has on the scabbard an arrow beneath which is a small o with two larger one's next to it, under these a crown, under the crown B? E or E? 6?.
On the scabbard throat the number 212 with a line stamped through and also the numbers 8 and 4 or a 7.
The tip of the scabbard is broke, it 'swings' as if on an hinge.
On the blade a crown with ER under it then the date 1903 under that.
On the tang a letter K.
On the pommel the letters O.T.C. below which are the letter SH?F then a full stop then the letter U with the number 74 below the U.
On the pommel tip are the letters SB& N, which I think is Sanderson Brothers and Newbould.

Hope this all makes sense and I would welcome your views on these bayonets.

Dean.

[TonyE]

I wil leave it to the usual suspects to go into detail on your little treasure trove, but it is ironic that the lower one is a P.1903 when there is an active thread about the scarcity of these in original British form.

Yours seems never to have left your local area since it is marked to the Officer Training Corps of Sheffield University.

Regards
TonyE

[Torrey]

Hello, Dean -

A short summary of information about your bayonets is as follows:

The top bayonet is indeed a British WWII-period No. 4, Mark II or No. 4, Mark III bayonet.

The second bayonet is indeed a French M-1874 bayonet for the Gras rifle.  The top of the blade should be engraved with the name of the arsenal and date of manufacture.

The third bayonet is a British WWI P-1907 bayonet.  It was manufactured by Sanderson in February 1915 ("2  15").

The bottom bayonet is indeed a British P-1903 bayonet, as described by Tony.  There should be a date of manufacture on the blade, much smaller than the "1903."

I hope that this summary is of some use.

Regards, Torrey

[TRAJAN]

A very nice little collection there! Enjoy!

Trajan

[dean1]

Thanks for the comments.
I would also like to know how to clean these up, or shouldn't I touch them at all ? Would also like a guess at valuation.

Dean.

[TRAJAN]

dean1, on 28 July 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

...The one with the 'hook' a Gras 1874, I can only see a very faint number? on the 'hook', also believe it was the model that was used as an earth for telegraphy?...

As there is a number on the quillion (= 'hook') this is probably a French-made Gras. Look carefully and you might see a letter in front of that. More to the point, have you looked at the back (or top!) of the T-shaped blade? There should be something written there - the name of the factory where this bayonet was made and also the year (and possibly the month of the year) it was made.

Trajan

[dean1]

The number on the quillion of the Gras is 99247, there is something else before it but not decipherable. Some fine steel wool has revealed part of the engraving, Mre d' and what I'm guessing looks like Chatellerault, cant see any date after that.
I have degreased these with white spirit and cleaned most of the rust off with fine steel wool, do I leave them like this now??
I would also really like an honest valuation if possible as I think I might let the lot go.

Dean.

[shippingsteel]

To offer any idea of valuation we really need to see the blade condition of the P1907 and especially the P1903, as that is where the value will be.
So that would mean a lot more photos including the damage to the scabbard if possible. I would also like to see any markings found on the back.

Cheers, S>S

[dean1]

Found more markings on the O.T.C. bayonet, there is what looks like another crown above the E.R. crown with a letter S under it then the numbers 2 and 4 under the S.
 1903.jpg   18.72K   0 downloads
1903 scabbard markings
 1903 scabbard.jpg   23.47K   0 downloads
Broken 1903 scabbard
 broken scabbard.jpg   22.39K   0 downloads
O.T.C. SHF.U marks
 varwwwclientsclient1web2tmpphpDuo2H2.jpg   18.41K   1 downloads
1903 out of scabbard
 03.jpg   30.27K   2 downloads

[dean1]

1907 out of scabbard
 07.jpg   31.82K   2 downloads
blade markings
 1907.jpg   15.57K   1 downloads
 1907 +.jpg   16K   0 downloads

[shippingsteel]

dean1, on 31 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

I would also really like an honest valuation if possible as I think I might let the lot go.

You've done really well with those extra photos Dean.! Managed to capture the required detail in those shots very well indeed.
There are some nice articles there but unfortunately the overall condition is a bit average - but you can hardly complain at the price.!

The P1907 (Sanderson 1915) has a fairly clean blade, but has a post-war reissue in 1924 & scabbard looks a bit rough, so my estimate $75 - $100 USD.

The P1903 bayonet sounds like a converted P1888 blade with that extra inspection mark located above the royal cypher, but its still a P1903 none the less.
Blade looks rough and pommel slightly worse, scabbard markings show it to be an original P1903 sans frog but it is badly damaged, my guess $100 - $150.

As for the M1874 Gras it looks to be in rough condition without scabbard, so $30 - $50 ... and the No.4 also without a scabbard possibly only $15 - $20 USD.

Of course these are only ballpark figures based on my own estimation, others may differ with their views and it does depend heavily on where you are selling.

Cheers, S>S

[dean1]

shippingsteel, much appreciated. Is there anything I can do to improve them? How do you improve the leather on the scabbard etc? Finally, where would I sell if I decide to sell?
Apologies for all the questions, just want them to look their best and to get the best return and give the old guy who gave them me something back.

Dean.