10 replies to this topic

[Ken Lees]

Following the find of a No.85 fuse in a field on the Somme last week, I wonder if it is possible to estimate where it was fired from.

If the fuse setting is known, are there any tables that could be used to work out the distance it would have travelled?

I know the No.85 fuse was fired from both 13 and 18 pounders but was it always shrapnel? The bottom (larger) ring of the fuse appears red/orange, if that is of any significance.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[TonyE]

A red band around the fuze adaptor ring indicates it was a shrapnel round.

In theory if you can read the fuze setting it would be possible to establish the range it was fired at from the original range tables, but I shall leave it to one of our artillerymen to give you a more informed opinion.

Regards
TonyE

[Ken Lees]

Thanks Tony. That's what I was hoping.

I may have a photo or two of the fuse later, which I will post in case any further information can be gleaned from it. I believe the manufacturer's mark is "ALCO"

Ken

[TonyE]

Your fuze was made by the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), needless to say in the US of A!

Regards
TonyE

[Old Tom]

I do not think there is an answer to you question. The fuze setting - simply how long after the shell was fired did it explode to release shrapnel -might give some idea of the distance of the gun from the target, but there are many other factors. 18 pounders used shrapnel for wire cutting and for creeping barrages and there was lots of that a various dates on the Somme.

Old Tom

[Ken Lees]

Thanks Tom.

What I am hoping to be able to estimate is the distance a shell would travel from the weapon until it hit the ground if the fuse was set at 'x'.

Ken

[ianjonescl]

The fuze setting would give the time that the fuse detonated and as the 13 pounder and 18 pounder had fixed charges then the range for that fuze setting should be able to be ascertained.  There would be additional factors such the height of burst (did this detonate at the optimum height), zone (the vagaries of each individual fuse) and the meteorology at that time.

However... if you can get a rough range you may be at least able to identify a likely area. By looking at maps of gun locations (Haigs Artillery maps are available) it may correspond. My understanding was the gun lines were very much fixed during the positional phase on the Somme. If you are lucky the terrain in the gun areas may dictate limited possibilities for location.

What date is on the fuse ?

Where was it found  ?

[Ken Lees]

I'm not sure what the date is on the fuse. I will have it re-examined and post the details here.

It was found a few hundred metres north of the road that leads from Factory Corner, Flers towards Gueudecourt.

Thanks for your response.

[rflory]

I am not that conversant with Great War artillery, but I was rather good at gunnery as an artillery officer in the US Army in the 1960s and it would seem to me that if you are firing a fixed charge that a major determinent on how far the gun was from the fuze would be the elevation at which the gun was fired. Given a fixed charge and no change in the met, the higher the elevation of the gun the shorter the range. Even if you were somehow able to determine the distance and wanted to know where the gun was located you would have to know the bearing on which it was fired (i.e. determine a back azimuth from the fuze to the gun postion) - to my knowledge it would be impossible to determine that from the current location of the fuze.

Dick Flory

[nigelfe]

You won't get an accurate range, but will get within a few hundred yards one way or the other.

Fuze length isn't a straight linear relationship with range.

Range tables do give the fuze lengths for every hundred yards of range, however fuze lengths weren't ordered to the guns, what was ordered was the range (usually nearest hundred yards) and the Corrector setting, these data were set on the fuse (bar) indicator and the actual fuze setting read at each gun and then set on the fuze.  The standard Corrector setting was 100 and this gave the range table fuze setting (depending on whether or not the FBI accomodated actual muzzle velocity derived from calibration shooting).  Other corrector lengths were ordered during ranging (or predicted) to achieve the desired burst position and compensate for the meteorological conditions.

[Ken Lees]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated.