14 replies to this topic

[OZDC]

Hello,

I am researching a relative, (HL Wilcox 1126) who was with the original D Co. 23rd Battalion AIF.
In looking at his service records I notice that he is offiically assigned to the battalion/company the day before they shipped out, 3 months after enlistment.
I'm referring to the (attached) section of the servce record where the CO does " accordingly approve, and appoint him to........"

However other members of his company were assigned to the Battalion at different times, some not long after enlistment.

What determined when they were 'officially' assigned to the Battalion and why would it vary?


He was part of the 'originals' but the battalion had numerous reinforcement units.

Where these assigned to the original companies or a unit on its own?

The reason I ask is that, for example, I have references to D Co. of the 23rd, but not the 15 Reinforcements of the 23rd.
This would lead me to assume that they were integrated into the existing companies, however I have not found references to which companies some of these men would have ended up with.

T.I.A for any assistance

Dave

[WhiteStarLine]

Dave, there is no simple answer to any of these questions and it may be as simple as he was with a training company at Broadmeadows / Maribyrnong from inception and only officially posted to D Coy on embarkation.  Reinforcements would have been distributed as required and units may have mixed 'old hands' and new, or separated them as they saw fit.  Many reinforcements travelled with or even before their battalions.  The 1st reinforcements of the 23rd Battalion left 3 days before D Coy.  The 15th reinforcements are listed at http://www.aif.adfa....ode=INF23REIN15 and if you select a sample and check their individual service records, you may be able to gain a picture of how they were integrated with their new companies.

A good book on the 23rd may answer these questions for you.
Cheers,

Bill

[OZDC]

Thanks Bill,

Pretty much as I thought.

I think after some further investigation I think I have worked out why its not so obvious.

The service records I have been looking at have the B103 form, in these, the reinforcement is noted as being 'taken on strength' and referring to the b213 form.

I could only find reference to one B213 in a Light Horse war diary and it does list those 'added to strength'

There are no B213's in the 23rd's war diaries.

BTW I'm currently reading Ron Austins book "Forward Undeterred" which has lots of good information.

Thanks

Dave

[WhiteStarLine]

Dave, I feel a right dill!  I only discovered last night that my wife's great uncle was in the first reinforcements, 23rd Battalion AIF.  He fought in the trenches at Lone Pine and Scrubby Knoll at Gallipoli and was killed at Pozieres, around 1,000 metres or so from where we are staying at Butterworth Farm next week.  He was 1536 Robert Bond Middleton, so if you have any reference to his specific company or a 23rd Battalion nominal roll, let me know.

Cheers,

Bill

[Wendy Mac...]

Dave and Bill

This may be of help to you both, the Australian collection of war diaries for the 1st World War https://www.awm.gov.....asp?levelID=91

War diary for the 23rd Infantry Bn from the August 1915  ~ to ~  April 1919  https://www.awm.gov....sp?levelID=1773

Wendy

[OZDC]

Bill,

Looked in the usual places, couldnt find any reference to his company.

In case you haven't seen these.

AIF Project
http://www.aif.adfa....rson?pid=207587

Service Record
http://recordsearch....Barcode=8012764  

If the above fails with a session timeout or similar just do the search again from Namesearch tab at http://recordsearch....asicSearch.aspx

War Memorial Records
http://www.awm.gov.a...First World War

Unfortunately no Red Cross Wounded and Missing report, they often mention the company.

A couple of interesting points from his service record.
- It includes his will taken from his pay book.,Very short; "I leave every thing to my mother. Mrs .........". "Including  all my money in Savings bank"
- He was a naughty boy in Wittes, given 10 days Field Punishment No. 2 for "Failing to comply with a general order" by "being found beyond the limit of the Billiting area" AWOL?


Wendy,
Thanks although I've looked in the war diaries previously, couldn't find any B213's. I'd love it if I could find them for the 23rd.
Revisiting the April 1916 diary for the day he died, it is hard to isolate any particualr company as it looks like they were all involved in some part. (e.g machine gun sections moved between companies)

Regards

Dave

[WhiteStarLine]

Wendy and Dave, thanks.  I'll keep looking as I've checked these resources for his company.  According to a quick read of the unit war diary, B company, 23rd Battalion were torpedoed after they left Gallipoli, so an eventful campaign on all accounts.  Cheers, Bill.

[DavidB]

I have had a good look through the service records of my late step-father (Pte J B Williams 3363 12th Bn) with no luck on dates either.

He originally joined the 26th Bn on 6-9-15 in Claremont, Tas. However the next notation is him being shipped out as part of the 7th reinforcement

to the 12th Bn, where he remained until wounded and R T A. I assume that essentially, unattached soldiers were taken from their near final training

period and posted as reinforcements to whatever battalion needed an injection of new troops to cover their losses.

[Waddell]

Bill and Dave,

Not sure if this is of any help to you, although there are some company photos, a description of the 'Southland' incident and brief details regarding Pozieres-

http://www.aif.adfa....IF Souvenir.pdf

Scott

[WhiteStarLine]

Many thanks Scott, new to me.

[frev]

WhiteStarLine, on 28 August 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Wendy and Dave, thanks.  I'll keep looking as I've checked these resources for his company.  According to a quick read of the unit war diary, B company, 23rd Battalion were torpedoed after they left Gallipoli, so an eventful campaign on all accounts.  Cheers, Bill.

Hi Bill

According to a letter from his mother in 1920 (p.38 of his SR) - he was in D Coy.
So he wouldn't have been on the Southland (which was actually torpedoed on the way to Gallipoli)

Cheers, Frev

[WhiteStarLine]

Frev, thanks so much, I missed this with too hasty reading.  The appendices & map in the battalion unit war diary give detailed locations of posts, boundaries, frontages and trench map references for D company, so I can piece together what happened at Mouquet Farm ready for my visit in 10 days.  The commendations for the stretcher bearers give an idea of what it was like and the CO's note adds: "I would like to add that the Battalion was under heavy fire for fifty hours before being relieved, during which time the casualties amounted to 7 officers and 300 other ranks".

[Wendy Mac...]

Bill do you require any trench maps of the area or are you sorted already.

Wendy

[WhiteStarLine]

Wendy, I have an electronic copy of Sheet 57d SE Albert 1918-05 Scale 20,000 from McMaster.  Do you have any higher resolution?  Cheers, Bill

[Wendy Mac...]

Bill ~  That is the same trench map I have, other than that I have croonaert 'Paths of glory' Somme trench map snippets but they are 1915 and 1916 and I gather you are after 1918 ed.

This is a POG snippet 1916

 Pozieres Sept 1916 (640x594).jpg   232.31K   0 downloads