9 replies to this topic

[Simon P-G]

Medal card for Charles H. W. Godfree.

The grandson of Charles Godfree has contacted me asking if I know why his g-f only received the British Medal and not the Victory medal as per the medal card? His photo album includes WW1 photos from France, India, and Afghanistan or Waziristan. The 25th London conducted 2 campaigns in WW1, the Waziristan in 1917 and the 3rd Afghan War in 1919. My own grandfather Harry Parker was also there and he received both medals.

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Simon
Tasmania

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•  Godfree, Charles H W.jpg   66.14K   3 downloads

[BillyH]

Simon,
The 2 medals were awarded as follows (as quoted in National Archives)
The British War Medal : basic requirement was that they either entered a theatre of war, or rendered approved service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918.   
The Victory Medal 1914-1919 : was awarded to all eligible personnel who served on the establishment of a unit in an operational theatre.

Can only assume that he wasn't in an "operational theatre" in France.

BillyH.

[Will I Davies]

In the medal index card if the soldier had entered a theatre of war it would be noted in this card in the relevant section on the card so one can assume from this that he did not serve overseas during the requisite period.

Regards
Will

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•  Godfree,%20Charles%20H%20W.jpg   49.68K   0 downloads

[old owl]

Will I Davies, on 10 August 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

In the medal index card if the soldier had entered a theatre of war it would be noted in this card in the relevant section on the card so one can assume from this that he did not serve overseas during the requisite period.

Regards
Will

You may be correct Will, but I think if you check the majority of MIC's to o/rs, you will infact find no date recorded here regardless of where they served--or at least this has been my experience.

[Ken Lees]

The date of entry is only entered on the card (with a few exceptions, primarily on officers' cards) if the date of entry is prior to the end of 1915. This is because of the qualification for the 1914 or 1914/15 Star. There was no point putting a date of entry on the card if the man first entered a theatre of war on or after 1/1/16.

[kenf48]

Possibly the key here is the second entry on the medal card; i.e. the Somerset Light Infantry (2nd Bn?).

We don't know why he was posted from the 1/25th London Regiment (which, according to the LLT landed in Bombay in February 1916) but there is no doubt many men, as you note on your interesting website,  found the rigours of service in the tropics difficult and quickly succumbed to sickness.  
It's possible to speculate that as a result of this his fitness may have been downgraded and he was only able to perform garrison duties, was transferred to the Somerset Light Infantry and did not enter an operational theatre therefore, unlike your grandfather, did not qualify for both medals.  
For example most, if not all of the casualties for the Regiment in SDGW show 'died' which indicates sickness or accident.

A quick look through the mics shows nearly 50 men who were transferred from the 25th London to the Somerset LI, the majority have the one medal.  Some went on to other Regiments and a few saw active service on the NW Frontier.
Further research could probably identify the date/reason for the draft more accurately.

I can offer no explanation for the photos you refer to but does he know the provenance and/or do they show Pte Godfree in France etc or are they just general photos?

Ken

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Quote

The grandson of Charles Godfree has contacted me asking if I know why his g-f only received the British Medal and not the Victory medal as per the medal card? His photo album includes WW1 photos from France, India, and Afghanistan or Waziristan. The 25th London conducted 2 campaigns in WW1, the Waziristan in 1917 and the 3rd Afghan War in 1919

I think that your answer lies here much service in the vastness of Indian Sub Continent only qualified men for the BWM,  Some however managed a 1914~15 Star Trio and an IGS, or a TFWM and BWM only, Godfree may just not have served in any of the theatres eligible for an AVM

[Hebburn Jon]

I would put money on it that h served with the 2nd Bn Somerset Light Infantry in India while on garrison duty which only entitled him to the British War Medal. Like its been said some later got caught up in in the 3rd Afghan war and were entitled to the IGS medal with the NWF 1919 clasp.

[WW1]

My wife's grandfather, a Boer war veteran, was recalled to the colours in WW1.  He served as WO2 and WO1 with 20th Service Bn, Manchester Regiment, and spent all his time on home servce apart from one brief trip to France.  He was sent to France ic a group of reinforcements and spent 10 days there.  He went up to the line with the group and spent a day on the strength of the DLI.  He was awarded the War Medal but in spite of post war representations he did not receive the Victory Medal  As he pointed out in his claims, if he had been wounded whilst he was in the line he would have received the Victory Medal.  Although he was given and retained the War Medal his medal card indicates that the award was cancelled.

Evidently the granting of the War and Victory Medals was somewhat inconsistent,  which is not surprising given the numbers involved and the quality of documentation.

[sutton-in-craven]

I have a medal pair to a Captain who entered the theatre of war in Sept 1914 in Malta. Hence he was not entitled to either the 1914 or 1914-15 star, just the pair.

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