6 replies to this topic

[khaki]

While examing the casualty list for Jutland I saw a number of civilian names as KIA, almost all described as 'canteen workers', was it the normal practice during war to have civilian workers on board ship?, also did they have a 'battle station'.?

thanks

khaki

[DavidB]

Khaki,
  Civilians have long been carried on major warships both in peace time and war time, I think from Cruiser upwards. Why this is so I haven't been able to find

out but could be because employing sailors to staff the canteen would interrupt their job as a member of the ships company.

They were also entitled to the BWM provided they had served the appropriate time at sea and I blv that the medal was inscribed CTN MGR in lieu of a rank/rating.

[healdav]

NAAFI and its earlier equivalent have for many years been present on warships.

Equally, the support ships have civilian staffs and crews and always have had since at least the time of Henry VIII.

Then there are the Chinese laundrymen (and they are Chinese).

[DavidB]

Also had a Chinese bootmaker on one ship I was on. His name was Wak-a-tak.

[TeeCeeCee]

rgartillery, on 23 August 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Khaki,
  Civilians have long been carried on major warships both in peace time and war time, I think from Cruiser upwards. Why this is so I haven't been able to find out but could be because employing sailors to staff the canteen would interrupt their job as a member of the ships company.

You could look at it as simply a shop, with employees, where the company hires the space/opportunity.

"... every large ship carries a canteen, from which the men may purchase whatever else they may require in the way of foodstuffs, etc. The canteens are tenanted by large catering firms, who undertake to supply articles of good quality at prices approved by the Admiralty. No one, of course, is allowed to sell beer, wines, or spirits on board, but otherwise the canteen stocks a wide range of articles. The system is not altogether popular with the men, but that is a matter which can hardly be discussed here. The tenants pay a rental of 6d. per man per month for all men victualled, and this goes into what is called the Ship's Fund, which is used for various purposes in the men's interest for sports, amusements, benevolent purposes, and so on."

[khaki]

I would have thought that upon declaration of war all civilians would have been put ashore, unless already at sea. To still have civilians aboard ship two years into the war does seem wrong to me.

khaki

[healdav]

khaki, on 25 August 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I would have thought that upon declaration of war all civilians would have been put ashore, unless already at sea. To still have civilians aboard ship two years into the war does seem wrong to me.

khaki

Well, there goes the entire RN supply system then (speaking as one who was a part of it) - and what about those civilians who are on exchange tours of duty with Naval officers?

In fact, when the U-boat was blown to the surface and a trio went on board to retrieve the Enigma and code books, one of them was the NAAFI manager! I think he survived. Certainly two of the three went down when the U-boat sank.