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Unidentified German Shell Case - Help please.

polte magdeburg shell identification german

12 replies to this topic

#1 pelops

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:37 AM

Hi,

I am hoping someone will help identify a large shell case that I recently came across. I have been looking through forums and images for the last 3 days but can't find the same bore or length.

I am on the Isle of Wight and wondered whether it ay be from a ship as lots of Maritime items turn up here - Can anyone please help?
I would especially like to know what type of gun it was used in if anyone knows.

Posted Image

It has not been cut down as it has the internal thread at the end.

The Base markings are POLTE - MAGDEBURG - SEPT - 1915 - 20 - (Crown Mark) Mg3.

Measurements - Base 175mm - Top 153mm - Length 722mm.


Thanks on advance.

#2 centurion

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:12 AM

Isn't it unusual for a cartridge case to have an internal thread?

#3 bruilooze

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

Isn't it unusual for a cartridge case to have an internal thread?

Isn't it unusual for a cartridge case to have an internal thread?


maybe the original poster is looking at the primer hole

#4 TonyE

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:24 AM

It is one of the several types of 15cm guns used by the navy, but am away from my sources at the moment. I will post later this evening if no-one else has identified it meanwhile.

Regards
TonyE

#5 Torrey

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

Hello, Pelops - The measurements that you provide indicate that it probably is a 150x727 shell case for the 15cm K-15 long-range artillery piece. It is not a naval shell case, because the month of manufacture is shown as "SEPT" rather than "IX" (Roman numerals were used on naval shell cases). Regards, Torrey

#6 centurion

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

And isn't it a cartridge case not a shell case?

#7 pelops

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

Hi,

thanks for the info. It definately has an internal thread. See photo. - I have also weighed it as it is very heavy and it is 8 Kilos in weight.


Posted Image

#8 MikB

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

Hi,

thanks for the info. It definately has an internal thread. See photo. - I have also weighed it as it is very heavy and it is 8 Kilos in weight.


I don't think that's an intentional internal thread - it would be extremely difficult to locate anything accurately to screw into a thread that large and that fine. I think those are just machining marks from a good, sharp boring bar at a coarse feed to bring it to diameter in a quick operation.

Regards, MikB

#9 pelops

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

Hi,

thanks everyone for their input. I have searched for 150 x 727 shell case as described by Torrey above and have found the following in someones online catalogue, which appears to be similar. Torrey says it can't be a Naval Shell as it has SEPT and not Roman Numerals, however the following example is also shown with the month name rather than number. -

23075 WW1 GERMAN NAVY 150 x 727mm R BRASS CASE - This case is from with 15 cm/40 (5.9") SK L/40 guns used as secondary armament on many German pre-dreadnoughts and large cruisers of the late 1890s and early 1900s. Some were also exported to Austria-Hungary where they were used on a few ships. During the Second World War, this gun equipped a few transports and supply ships and was used in some coastal artillery batteries. These were mounted on the following classes of warships: Kaiser Friedrich III, Wittelsbach, Victoria Louise, Fürst Bismarck, Prinz Heinrich, Prinz Adalbert, Roon and Scharnhorst (1907). This case was made in November 1916 at Karlsruhe and so marked on the base. Noce overall polished condition. INERT- No flammable or explosive material. $425.00 (View Picture)


I know that the manufacturer is different but can anyone please confirm (or otherwise), if this is the same shell case made for use in the same guns?


Wikipedia has these details for the SK L/40 gun along with the Shell details,( though I don't understand them). - http://en.wikipedia...._cm_SK_L/40_gun

#10 centurion

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

The brass case held the propellant and is correctly therefore a cartridge case and not a shell case. A shell case is the outer part of a shell that contained the explosive or the shrapnel of gas or what ever. I know cartridge cases are often seen referred to as shell cases but this is incorrect.

#11 Cnock

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:47 AM

Hi,

Torrey is right about the cartridge case being army rather than navy, also the case has to be marked with the imperial crown above the 'M' if its an naval case

Cnock

#12 pelops

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

Hi all,

thanks for your help. I have managed to find out that it is in fact an SK L/43 Cartridge Casing for the 15cm Kanone m16 (Krupp).

Would anyone know how rare or common these are to come across?

Many thanks

#13 Torrey

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

Hello, Pelops -

During the war the German Navy gave the German Army a number of large cannon, mostly taken from obsolete warships, for use on land as long-range artillery. [The best-known probably are the two huge "Long Max" naval guns used at Verdun.] Once naval guns were in in land service, the shell cases were no longer made for the navy but for the army. Consequently, one can find shell cases marked like yours for army use, while identical-size shell cases will be marked for naval use with the crowned "M" (as pointed out by Cnock) and with Roman numerals to designate the month of manufacture.

The exception would be the guns mounted along the Belgian coast, manned by Marines. Although land-mounted, they would still have been naval property and the shell cases would have been marked accordingly. [I am speculating here, and might be wrong.]

Large shell cases like yours are scarce and desirable to collectors, but not particularly rare. You have a nice piece!

Regards, Torrey





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